why do some people consider low functioning inferior ?

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23 Dec 2013, 6:14 pm

littlebee wrote:

What you wrote painted me in a bad light and completely false light, so it was interesting for me to reply, and I had a focus there. You don't care is all I can tell because you don't see me a person. You are doing the exact same thing with me you are telling me not to do with someone else, which thing I am not even doing. If I don't point it out I see the disingenuity factor on this thread increasing to the point that real learning cannot occur. Personally I have a thick skin, and am used to it, especially with people bashing me here on WP, but this is worth mentioning in the context of this discussion. Plus the image of inviting a lice infested person into my home and giving them a bath and getting to know them was ridiculous. Did you mean giving them a complete delousing and disposing of their clothes and buying them new ones? You could have asked me if I know any homeless people.

Littlebee, I wasn't painting you in a bad light or bashing you. I was presenting my opinion and offering what I thought was a different perspective. I wasn't telling you what to do but just suggesting a different way of seeing things.
I am not passive aggressive.

Quote:

You don't care is all I can tell because you don't see me a person

Why did you say this? You don't know what I am thinking.
Theory of Mind is about thinking about what the another person is thinking. If your theory of mind is not so good, please stop trying to project an incorrect theory of my mind into things I say when I am just making an argument about my beliefs and not attacking you personally.
Arguing ideas is good and that is why I have responded to your threads. and all I was doing is arguing about ideas.
It's OK if you don't think about how your words would be interpreted by others when you write them. Apparently my words offended you and you reacted by bashing me because for some reason you thought I was thinking things that I wasn't thinking.

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23 Dec 2013, 6:34 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:

Hey! There's something shiny over here!

This is a good idea.

Marybird
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23 Dec 2013, 7:05 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

Often, for autistic people, choosing the right words and right way of saying something and anticipating people's thoughts and feelings in response to one's words is verry merry berry difficult or impossible, so I tend to cut people slack on this one.

This is a good idea. Littlebee, I will cut you some slack. In fact I have been cutting you a lot of slack.
Please cut me some slack and stop attacking me for things I say by accusing me of saying things to make you look bad.
It is the things you say that make you look bad to people who don't understand why you say them.
You say I am passive aggressive because I don't overtly attack you but the things I say put you in a bad light. That is not my fault. I have a right to my own opinion.

Defending yourself and your ideas is good. Attacking someone else for having a different opinion is not good.

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23 Dec 2013, 7:15 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

Marybird wrote:

What is the sense in trying to explain what was actually meant and getting into endless debates and arguments, when all that was necessary was to choose the right words and the right way of saying something in the first place.
Unless the wording was meant to provoke.

I'm partly agreeing with this on the basis that people can easily trip over themselves when describing functionality in terms of autism. However there is a onus on people to train their brains not to put themselves in positions where they cause unnecessary hurt by using words such as "inferior" without thinking about what other people may feel in response.

In that respect littlebee, troy and a couple of others could learn a thing or two...

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23 Dec 2013, 9:08 pm

Marybird wrote:

littlebee wrote:

Marybird wrote:

Quote:

You cannot possibly know what goes on inside the minds of low functioning autistics. You can only make assumptions based on your own limited perceptions. Inferiority is in the eyes of the beholder.

Besides the fact that t i did not say I know what goes on in the minds of such people, what you write does not seem on topic. You do not know what goes on my mind, either, though people can to some degree extrapolate from people's behavior.. But how does what you write have anything to do with the topic? I do not get it. Of course inferiority is in the eyes of the beholder, but this is a moot point, as anything is in the eyes of the beholder. Each person has his own subjective contextual perception of the value of an individual human being in a particular situation. I have already covered this completely. Each human being is precious in terms of inherent human value, but this does not mean I would invite a lice infested homeless person to my party. I do not even necessarily HAVE to know or even extrapolate what is going on in certain people's minds to know if and how they fits into a certain context..And I am a person many troubled people come and talk to, but when a customer comes theprobably have to leave. Today a homeless person I always used to talk to who finally kind of turned his situation around came to my booth and gave ME a dollar. How happy that made him and me, too.

What are you trying to say here, Marybird? I am thinking what you have written is a way to take the focus off self development and also development from a group perspective by pinning it on someone else that they are not as sensitive and compassionate as so and so, namely yourself and some other members writing on this thread,perhaps? .It seem like a ploy.

am here to enquiire and speak my own truth. If you can help me discover something new, I am open, but are you open?[b]

I was not going to reply to this post but I am feeling encouraged by the OP's kind words.
I only meant by my comment that low functioning autistics can have types of intelligence that often cannot be fully seen or understood by the outside world. intelligence is usually measured against the way ordinary people think and behave.
Littlebee, they may seem to you to have an inferior way of being simply because you don't know what is going on inside their minds.
If you could switch brains with an LFA person for a day, you will likely be the one that becomes enlightened.
Maybe you would also become enlightened if you invited that lice infested homeless man to your party and got to know him. You can offer him a bath first.
It used to be believed that severely autistic individuals were locked inside a dark and empty shell. I like to think we've come a long way since then.
Different minds have different ways of thinking and relating to and understanding the world.

I was actually trying to suggest another way of seeing things and maybe help you discover something new.
I was not off topic and not trying to make you look bad. Can you see that now?

Quote:

What are you trying to say here, Marybird? I am thinking what you have written is a way to take the focus off self development and also development from a group perspective by pinning it on someone else that they are not as sensitive and compassionate as so and so, namely yourself and some other members writing on this thread,perhaps? .It seem like a ploy.

You are certainly using Theory of Mind to attribute a mental state to me. But the mental state you attributed to me is not correct. That was not what I was trying to say and it was not what I was thinking.
I should have brought this up earlier. It was an attack on me, instead of a disagreement with my ideas or opinions. That sort of thing is not supposed to be allowed on this forum.
What you should have done is perhaps explain why you disagreed with me. For instance, explain why you thought that inviting the homeless person into your house was a bad idea, or explain in more detail why you say LFA is inferior, rather than attribute false mental states to me. Do you see that now?

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23 Dec 2013, 9:35 pm

You guys do know you're just feeding littlebee, right?
She's not having a conversation with you, she's counting the page hits and giving expert lectures to her imaginary admirers. Every thread she goes into, she turns into another lecture podium. She responds to her own posts, kicks people out or tells them she must approve their posts via pm before they will be allowed to post because she doesn't seem to understand what a public forum is. If you ignore her, she might go away (or at least stop spamming the forum with her lecture posts).

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23 Dec 2013, 9:51 pm

wozeree wrote:

I had no idea this was going on.

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23 Dec 2013, 10:40 pm

I'm just trying to crawl out of the bear trap.

btbnnyr
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23 Dec 2013, 10:46 pm

I thought that littlebee said that low functioning means inferior to functioning, not inferior as hoooman being.

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23 Dec 2013, 10:52 pm

Marybird,

I hope you can.

Btbnnyr, I think that was one of her explanations, but it didn't strike me as consistent with her original statement.

I am still bothered by such a formulation because of the way "inferior" is used against people and has historically been used against people.

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23 Dec 2013, 11:46 pm

(Edited to add to what I wrote below ---Marybird I have read your messages and it has been my intent the whole time to go back to the original interchange and explain why I got so upset by your response. I'm sorry I have not done it yet, but it is taking me a while to process this entire interchange that is going on here. In any case, I have already acknowledge that my response was a reaction, which means I am taking responsibility for it and not blaming it on you, so we can start with that.When I explain it you and others will easily understand what was going on in my mind and why I responded as I did.. I just need to wait awhile, as too many messages dilutes the material so there is too much slip and not enough grip.)
-
My comment to my own message inserted in bold.

littlebee wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

Marybird wrote:

Thanks. I'm still gelling with what I am going to say, but in regard to your comment which makes a good point, the use of this kind of language can also be a form of passive aggression (which I have been accused of, actually), and any reasonably intelligent autistic person is perfectly capable of using language in this way. .However, I am well aware of what passive aggression is, and do not consider myself to be approaching from this angle, and I am very vigilant at examining my own responses and motives as I have been trained to do this from age twenty---not to suggest that a person cannot miss seeing certain patterns. I acknowledge I was aware that this language was to some degree kind of charged, but genuinely shocked to see some people's responses. It was akin to having the wool pulled off my eyes.. This could possibly be an autism thing, but, if so, I do not know if it is my autism or their autism or both:-)

What is probably an autism thing and also a naive or undeveloped theory of mind thing with me is that I was expecting people to understand certain concepts which I was expressing in a way which seemed very clear to me, but several they were not grasping the intended gist of what I was saying. I have this problem a lot but have only become aware of it somewhat recently. I first became aware of it two or three years ago when I realized I was idealizing people (in that I expected various people, including my own children. to understand what they obviously could not, at least in the way I was explaining it). It seems at first glance it is not such a bad thing to idealize people, but in a way it is a form of not listening to them and so not accepting them for being who they are.. I did not know the term theory of mind until two or three months after I joined this system last March, when my younger daughter told me about it during a phone conversation...

Marybird and everyone, when I came back from work a few minutes ago and saw all these messages, especially those from you, Marybird, I had no idea what was going on, and I have just now spotted what it probably is after rereading what I wrote. I was in no way accusing you of being passive aggressive. I don't think you are, and such a thought about you has never once crossed my mind. I guess I can see how my comment may have have been misread, but if you read what I wrote above in context of the entire two paragraphs, you can see that I was talking about myself not being passive aggressive, and I was also acknowledging what you said about me when I said I realized the language I used was kind of charged (though it is true the response from people shocked me). Sometimes people just misread things. Sometime I do. In any case this entire message was simply about myself and my own understanding. I wasn't going to write anything for a day or two as I had a major insight that is very profound to me (nothing negative:-) and wanted to sit with it before I try to share it, as it is so important to me..

Last edited by littlebee on 24 Dec 2013, 1:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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24 Dec 2013, 12:04 am

Verdandi wrote:

Marybird,

I hope you can.

Btbnnyr, I think that was one of her explanations, but it didn't strike me as consistent with her original statement.

I am still bothered by such a formulation because of the way "inferior" is used against people and has historically been used against people.

Yes and this makes sense and is worth communicating about and enquiring into: I think this thread is a very rich field to hoe regarding the use of various language and how it affects us, and please bear in mind, this is the word chosen by the op, (and that is fine). I have already written about this and do not like to have to keep repeating the same point. This word inferior is basically not in my vocabulary. I never think it about other people or consider myself superior to other people in the sense that is being talked about here, though I do have a competitive streak that is mostly weeded out but which sometimes though very rarely still rears its ugly head when I am at work and which I try to watch for. Basically it is a part of my spiritual practice not to compare myself to other people. Generally I am very accepting of other people but am not one hundred percent perfect. .

Last edited by littlebee on 24 Dec 2013, 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Marybird
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24 Dec 2013, 12:31 am

I know. What you said about you not being passive aggressive, I read it wrong. Sorry.

littlebee
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24 Dec 2013, 12:57 am

CockneyRebel wrote:

Hey! There's something shiny over here!

Ha ha and thanks:-)

To Marybird, I'm sorry, too.

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24 Dec 2013, 1:49 am

wozeree wrote:

You guys do know you're just feeding littlebee, right?
She's not having a conversation with you, she's counting the page hits and giving expert lectures to her imaginary admirers. Every thread she goes into, she turns into another lecture podium. She responds to her own posts, kicks people out or tells them she must approve their posts via pm before they will be allowed to post because she doesn't seem to understand what a public forum is. If you ignore her, she might go away (or at least stop spamming the forum with her lecture posts).

Re.what I've bolded: If she is; that's a ridiculous thing to do because she does not have admin privileges to be able to do that.

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24 Dec 2013, 1:55 am

Yes she told one person that he was not allowed to ever post in any thread of hers (and all he did was express interest in her subject) and she told a woman (I think it was a woman) that she needed to pm her messages to her so she could approve them before she posted them.

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