Critical of self diagnosis - you shouldn't be

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btbnnyr
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30 Nov 2014, 2:40 pm

Being literal, lacking social cognition, not mentalizing, reduced empathy, alexithymia, focusing on details are autistic traits that I would eggspect to find in people with autism on an autism forum. The communication content and style of people with the above traits are natural to me, and they feel natural coming from others.


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dianthus
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30 Nov 2014, 3:03 pm

This was an excellent post from AsPartOfMe, that got lost when the thread was deleted and I wanted to put it back here:

AsPartOfMe wrote:
Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:47 pm


I understand an ASD person being literal and wanting diagnosis to be used in the literal sense as a diagnosis by a professional. What bothers me is the inconsistency and apparent double standards in applying terms literally. The term "self diagnosed" is not an official valid anything. As has been pointed out it is used as a colloquial term by members to describe anything from "I suspect I am autistic" to "I am 100% sure I am Autistic". There is the term "High Functioning Autism" It also is not an official valid anything and a colloquial term that if anything is used to described an even broader range of people. There is not a new thread every month or so on the use of HFA and the ones that are started usually do not go 10+ pages. The ones that do occur question the use of fism. They don’t question the credibility of those describing themselves as HFA to describe themselves as Autistic.

Anybody can write they are professionally diagnosed but that will not be questioned 99% of the time another double standard.

Usually once a double standard is identified the next step is to question why. Fortunately we do not need to do that as many have shared not only the literal reasons but the emotional ones. The simplified version is they believe a there are a lot of non-Autistics going around claiming Autism to feel good about themselves. This phenomenon trivializing and invalidating their autism in the eyes of the public. For one thing this is a another double standard. It’s based on a whole lot of assumptions basically there has been a huge increase in diagnosis, it has become trendy etc thus people are “self diagnosing” to feel better. A lot more assumptions then I looked at a list of Autistic traits and I have most of them.

If the assumptions are true IMHO the people falsely diagnosing themselves as autistic are a tertiary problem behind the outsiders trying to delegitimize Aspergers/HFA and our own fears and self doubts.

This is supposed to be a support site. For this to work we need to people to be given the benefit of the doubt. What we have done is said losing fragile people is acceptable collateral damage because expositing fakers and wanabees is more important



Shadi2
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30 Nov 2014, 3:10 pm

Persimmonpudding wrote:
This entire concept of "my autism is better than your autism" is cliquish BS, and it's childish and asinine.


I agree.


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B19
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30 Nov 2014, 3:16 pm

Note to (some) diagnostees: you will not (repeat not) achieve your goal of bludgeoning we dissenters into agreement or resignation from WP by

- repetition ad nauseum
- making insulting accusations of general character faults (SS)
- misattribution of posts to wrong authors, then not apologising when it's pointed out
- scoffing
- saying you didn't know "non-diagnosed" people were allowed here
- obsessively splitting hairs, using ultra-literalism, trying to bludgeon opponents with semantic wrangling
- making specific slurs against particular dissenters
- employing hidden agendas, ego trips, and creating your own meanings of words.

Maybe form your own board, if you want to talk exclusively to yourselves about yourselves. Alex has made it clear how he wants this one to be.

Dianthus, you are one of the most thoughtful and insightful people on WP. It would be tragic if people with lesser scope bulldozed you off this board in their excessive pursuit of superiority. There are far far more members here who really value your input.



dianthus
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30 Nov 2014, 3:20 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Being literal, lacking social cognition, not mentalizing, reduced empathy, alexithymia, focusing on details are autistic traits that I would eggspect to find in people with autism on an autism forum.


I expect to find those traits here too, but I do not think they are a free pass or excuse to post without regard for how other people may feel. I think most posters here still show a lot of consideration for others even if they may struggle with some or all of those traits.



Graelwyn
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30 Nov 2014, 3:24 pm

Shadi2 wrote:
Persimmonpudding wrote:
This entire concept of "my autism is better than your autism" is cliquish BS, and it's childish and asinine.


I agree.


I also agree.


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btbnnyr
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30 Nov 2014, 3:28 pm

dianthus wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Being literal, lacking social cognition, not mentalizing, reduced empathy, alexithymia, focusing on details are autistic traits that I would eggspect to find in people with autism on an autism forum.


I expect to find those traits here too, but I do not think they are a free pass or excuse to post without regard for how other people may feel. I think most posters here still show a lot of consideration for others even if they may struggle with some or all of those traits.


But you asking others to do something completely unnatural to them, and they may not be able to do it.
I can't do it.
I had moderate to severe autistic traits and lacked language as a kid, so my brain probably missed various critical periods for development of social cognition.
I have a truly limited or lack of understanding of what you seem to understand naturally.
What you saying is largely alien to me.
It would be like asking someone with really poor EF to do one of my interpersonal eggsperiments, which involve two live people that you need to direct in multiple tasks, 4-6 separate devices to set up and control, real-time fixing of technical issues, and all done in 1-1.5 hours, the time slot that the participants signed up for and they need to leave to get on with their day by the end.


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dianthus
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30 Nov 2014, 3:36 pm

B19 wrote:
Dianthus, you are one of the most thoughtful and insightful people on WP. It would be tragic if people with lesser scope bulldozed you off this board in their excessive pursuit of superiority. There are far far more members here who really value your input.


Aw thank you so much for saying this :heart:



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30 Nov 2014, 3:46 pm

I'm taking a few moments to compose myself here. If there was one site where I thought I didn't have to be huggy-wuggy, I thought it would be an autism site. Apparently not. I'm expected to behave just like a typical female NT apparently (except a few NTs are great and understand me far better than the likes of dianthus do, even though they have superior social skills to me).



Shadi2
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30 Nov 2014, 3:49 pm

dianthus wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Being literal, lacking social cognition, not mentalizing, reduced empathy, alexithymia, focusing on details are autistic traits that I would eggspect to find in people with autism on an autism forum.


I expect to find those traits here too, but I do not think they are a free pass or excuse to post without regard for how other people may feel. I think most posters here still show a lot of consideration for others even if they may struggle with some or all of those traits.


Again I agree with dianthus, most posters here do show a lot of consideration.

Also I would like to add that I have seen this type of response (i.e. my autism is better than yours, if you are not as disabled as I am then you don't have AS, etc) this last year especially, it wasn't that way when I first joined WP (apart from maybe a poster or 2), people were discussing their various traits and symptoms and the discussions were generally open and friendly. My son has AS, and myself I am not diagnosed but I am 100% certain that I am autistic as well, however I am still debating what good it would do me to get officially assessed, I probably never will go for an official diagnosis (eventho sometimes I am very tempted to do it, but its not free and I don't have a lot of money). I can't see it anymore (with the new format) but on my profile it used to say something like "I think I have AS" or "not diagnosed yet", instead of "self-diagnosed" (and I've seen a lot of people getting bashed for this "self-diagnosed" statement), so I assumed I should just say "I think I have AS". In fact this kind of reaction did drive me away from WP for a while (I just came back about 2 weeks ago, because WP is generally a great forum and I missed it).

Never assume that adults who self-diagnose are ignorant idiots, most (if not all) are very informed about autism, often more than many therapists who have very little knowledge about autism unless they are specialised in autism disorder. Also remember that for most adults who get diagnosed with autism it started with a self-diagnosis.


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NiceCupOfTea
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30 Nov 2014, 3:51 pm

Quote:
Also I would like to add that I have seen this type of response (i.e. my autism is better than yours


I have never said that.

It's people like you and dianthus who seem to be busy imagining that people like me am. But I haven't. Nor has anyone else that I've seen.



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30 Nov 2014, 3:52 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
dianthus wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
Being literal, lacking social cognition, not mentalizing, reduced empathy, alexithymia, focusing on details are autistic traits that I would eggspect to find in people with autism on an autism forum.


I expect to find those traits here too, but I do not think they are a free pass or excuse to post without regard for how other people may feel. I think most posters here still show a lot of consideration for others even if they may struggle with some or all of those traits.


But you asking others to do something completely unnatural to them, and they may not be able to do it.
I can't do it.


I think this is a fair point btbnnyr and dianthus is attempting to acknolwedge that,but saying perhaps acknowledgement of the feelings of others is vital (I know you already know this).
I thought that the fact that ANiceCupOfTea was able to acknowledge their own difficulty in this area may have contributed to the occasional response being fiercer than perhaps was needed goes a really long way in reconciling fellow travellers. It is also showing wisdom and is a good strategy when something is completely unnatural. That is kind of why I am here to learn new srategies to help me get by better in the NT world and find some peace inside my own head.

I think the point for consideration for fellow travellers has been made now by a few people.
Can we get back to the interesting topic with an attitude of acceptance and positive regard?

Re resons for seeking a DX: Mine was because I nearly split up with my partner this summer. We made a break through with her beginning to see my ASD often messes with our communication. I think at that point she wanted to be sure it was Aspergers. Since then she has been doing research and met with our therapist and is convinced that this is real and not just an esxcuse I use for being difficult. We are working really hard to find strategies to promote understanding. I am not sure she is too bothered about me getting a DX now.
The other reason is work...... in case anything serious happens (I am a teacher) I don`t just want to blurt out I think I have ASD, it is for insurance really.

So really I personally am not bothered about a DX. These are my personal reasons. I am sure other people have many other reasons. I hope this helps your understanding Rocket.


Just read your post NiceCup of Tea.
You dont have to be huggy wuggy my freind if it is not your nature... be yourself.
I just feel the need to be a bit huggy wuggy to you, I hope you dont mind :)



Shadi2
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30 Nov 2014, 3:53 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:
Quote:
Also I would like to add that I have seen this type of response (i.e. my autism is better than yours


I have never said that.

It's people like you and dianthus who seem to be busy imagining that people like me am. But I haven't. Nor has anyone else that I've seen.


I wasn't talking about you at all, I was talking about this kind of comments (i.e. my autism is better than yours)in general.


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30 Nov 2014, 3:54 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:
I'm taking a few moments to compose myself here. If there was one site where I thought I didn't have to be huggy-wuggy, I thought it would be an autism site. Apparently not. I'm expected to behave just like a typical female NT apparently (except a few NTs are great and understand me far better than the likes of dianthus do, even though they have superior social skills to me).


I think there's a neutral medium to be found somewhere between the extremes of being "huggy-wuggy" and attacking people. I understand it may not be easy to find it when you're under a lot of stress.



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30 Nov 2014, 3:56 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:
I'm taking a few moments to compose myself here. If there was one site where I thought I didn't have to be huggy-wuggy, I thought it would be an autism site. Apparently not. I'm expected to behave just like a typical female NT apparently (except a few NTs are great and understand me far better than the likes of dianthus do, even though they have superior social skills to me).


I thought that I already posted this, but can't find it so please forgive me if it's already posted somewhere - but what I don't understand is that you guys keep acting like we are the emotional ones and you are just stating facts and we are trying to force you to bend to our emotions. This is not true, you are being very emotional in that you are offended by people believing they have Autism and stating so.

This is a fact about how the world runs. Some people who have Autism are diagnosed and some are not. And there are many valid reasons for not having a diagnosis. Harping on and on and pretending that is not the case is extremely emotional. Just except it.

Also, in your case you already admitted you do it because you like a fight. Expecting you not to provoke people is not the same thing as expecting you to be huggy.



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30 Nov 2014, 3:57 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:
Quote:
Also I would like to add that I have seen this type of response (i.e. my autism is better than yours


I have never said that.

It's people like you and dianthus who seem to be busy imagining that people like me am. But I haven't. Nor has anyone else that I've seen.


I have no idea where you got that idea or thought I implied that you are.