Faking autism and Faking aspergers

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Your duck analogy does seem condecending, because it's intended to illustrate how ridiculous and stupid laymen are at identifying something that's subjective. And autism is subjective even for professionals. You keep talking about the objectivity of professional dx, but it doesn't exist as of now in the case of autism. Autism doesn't "look" like anything, and if it did it wouldn't look the same in everyone, especially in a dr.s office. That's subjective, even in the case of trained professionals. And like I said before, a visit to the doctor can never be a perfect scale model of a person's entire life. A professional dx of ASD relys on the person or family to come up with subjective anecdotal proof, and that kind of communication can easily have an incomplete output and consequently be misinterpreted. A doctor could also look at a person's webbed feet, see the way they waddle and mistakenly think they fit the bill. But if a doctor told me I was a duck, I'd still call him a quack. (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

My problem is not that you have so much more faith in an expert's opinion than a laymen's, it's your seemingly fanatical faith in them that prompts you to call anyone with contrary opinions or even just opinions not directly verified by experts "liars". I shouldn't be surprised, our society has learned such a reliance on experts that indivual thinking is becoming obsolete. I don't disagree with all the experts, but when someone comments that truth and falsehood is only to be defined by them, well frankly I find that to be a bit disturbing and would never surrender my own power to find answers so completely. Yes, the experts do define these things, but that doesn't mean laymen are totally inept at identifying what they defined. A scientist has more authority than I do to say what the moon is. That doesn't mean I can't look out at night and pointing say " Look at the moon."
How do I know that's the moon? Mabe it's a large commet, or a spaceship. Venus can shine very brilliantly some nights. Without an astronomer to verify my statement, is my identification of the moon an outright lie?

I don't think most people who self dx are trying to be official to the majority or recieve official treatment and benefits. They just want to be able to discuss it freely without being judged. Their opinion is there own. Anyone can put as much faith in their self assesment as they want, but it isn't fair or correct to call them liars.

Yeah,

I think the first quote you took from daniel is quite insulting to those with AS. There are LOTS of cases where people with AS have achieved a lot of things. ALSO, some people really try to tolerate things. You have to realize that most undiagnosed people didn't have any CRUTCH! I'm not saying all diagnosed people do, but SOME obviously do.

Case in point? Look at what Neale said about lassie! I CAN RELATE! I think that is just about at my threshhold. Yet I like the music and the general show, so I tolerate it. Still, I can't STAND whistling! Just today, someone whistled, and I was in PAIN! Some companies I don't call because of a person, the answering machine, etc....

Still, I get by. I'm sure many, even ones diagnosed, do the SAME! As for variation, look at depression! Some are passive, and might kill themselves. Others are AGGRESSIVE and may try to blow up a town. With inferiority complex, some may think the dumbest person is just SO intelligent, and others may act like they think they can do NO wrong. Such variation is all over.

Well, a coworker here remarks about the ducks around, and I haven't the heart to tell her they are GEESE! YEP, I know the difference. It is crazy that daniel will talk about how he suposedly diagnosed himself, and was misdiagnosed, but NOW it is right. Meanwhile, a coworker can't tell a duck from a goose!

Some have asked for an example. The main case I've herd of, that appears strongly and with immense evidence and proof, to be a case of malingering low functioning autism is a person in their mid-20's. This person first malingered DID (multiple personality disorder) for about 2 years (it appears). Very vividly. And this person embraced and appeared to love this diagnosis. And presented themselves to others in this way, vividly, and very publically. This person had and continues to have a high priority to present themselves with their various disorders very vividly and very publically. Very outspoken. Then this person apologized for deceiving themselves and others about this DID diagnosis. Then this person claimed Schizophrenia, and vividly so, and very publically so, then after about 2 years, this person claimed they no longer had Schizophrenia and began to claim Autism. Then within a couple years this person began claiming low functioning autism, and now reports being non-verbal (non-speech) etc etc.

This person's parents do report attributes of this person's childhood that seem to be of rather high functioning Aspergers, but there was (and is proven) normal language acquisition, normal verbal communication, etc, and this person attended in the summer a college for gifted students at about 12 years old, and then, at 14yrs old started at a college, until 15yrs old. The beginning of the various major mental illness claims started at about 14-15 years old.

Importantly, it appears this person would FIRST claim these things, and then medicine would become involved. It's clear the person was malingering, and going from major mental health illness to another, and doctor shopping from one doctor to another.

....And like when this person claimed DID and Schizophrenia, very very very publically and enthusiastically, now this person does the same with Autism.

I understand there is difficulty with diagnosis often. And I've read and emailed with several non-verbal autistic individuals who now can communicate from ok to very well with typed communication. They do very well, and there is no basis to question them. I greatly admire their accomplishments, and they are true examples of hope in autism.

The case I mention here is much more consistent with Factitious Disorder and malingering, than autism. I am very surprised that this case has been so easily accepted, and not at least critically assessed by 3rd parties and in a very thorough way, including having release-of-information forms signed giving access to medical records, and importantly, finding the totality of doctors rather than a selected number. I think the totality of doctors would show the pattern of Factitious Disorder.

I think an autism specialist, while important, would not be the end of the inquiry. A specialist in Factitious Disorder would be essential.

Last edited by autism0 on 26 Mar 2008, 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Danielismyname, I agree that doctors are taught how to interpret the words of diagnostic manuals and non-professionals do not usually know how to read them, but there are a lot of resources available now about the autistic spectrum and it's possible to get a good understanding of what is meant by the words without getting a medical or psychology qualification. Doctors also have their blind spots and their pet conditions and often miss the solution even when they are generally competent. And it is not a lie to say something you believe; it would only be a lie if those people were to say they've been professionally diagnosed when they have not.


autism0, what do you want us to say, what is there to discuss about that? It obviously bothers you a lot, so why don't you talk to your friend about this instead of trying to get people on this message board to agree with your hypothetical? I don't understand why you seem to need everyone to agree with you and to talk about your situation alone.

the problem with autism and mental illness (schizophrenia) agoraphobia, etc is pretty similar to autism,aspergers for some people, i think the main issue is that alot of adults(in the 80s and below) are growing up not knowing what the hell is wrong with them and are bypassed as just a learning disability as a kid and when they become adult they are diagnosed with alot of mental illnesses, cause of the harsh life, traumatic events. and there brain is effected by the depression, etc that ends up being similar to autism/aspergers/brain damage that is similar to autism. now i don't understand how you can fake autism, especially if you have autism/asperger experts/doctors in your family which knows everything about it and you have to many symptoms that are very closely related to autism/pdd nos/aspergers and everything similar.

And i'm sure if alot of us wouldn't want the name Autism/or asperger if they didn't think they had it. there are thousands of medically researched papers/reports/information that autism and mental illness is linked, as well as you can have mild autism and alot of other related issues too.

Another tendency is that such people faking autism tend to have an immense Internet life, with dozens of message boards used each day, 8+ hours of Internet use per day, the gambling-like excitement of trying to juggle dozens of different websites and dozens of different usernames. The great excitement of seeing who responded to you at the dozens of sites. The great gambling-like energy of going from one to the other, anticipating who responded, hoping, looking, checking.

And the dozens of usernames on dozens of forums to create YOUR OWN COMMUNITY and ALL WHICH ADVOCATE FOR YOU. You can create an army of people just like you.

I consider this consistent with Factitious Disorder and malingering.

I'm impressed at how the Internet is often used as a mode of crafty exhibition, promotion, profiting, fame, and unfortunately lying. And for years and years.

Anyone who starts their rise to public notoriety via the Internet should, I'd argue, be looked at VERY critically, and carefully. I think the media, especially, should do this, and they haven't.

well if a physcologist, doctors and experts, diagnose someone with mental illness, or autism or aspergers, or adhd, or whatever even though they are successful in life or on the internet are lying about there clients diagnoses? seems kind of fruitless to me to say the least. I think you really can't judge someone who has medical history that is related to the conditions that they are dealing with. just my opinion. I mean i have many diagnoses, but i think you can't judge someone you don't know. sure they may be fine and cope on the internet fine, look at alex plank (wrongplanet owner) hes done internet stuff, website stuff, youtube? is he lying about his diagnoses? i don't think so.

Alot of people who are dealing with diagnoses seem to do alot better on the internet then socially in real life.

How exactly do you know so much about the profile of fakers in general? Either this is about many more people that you personally know that you aren't specifically mentioning, or this description is arising completely out of your imagination. You wonder why the topic has mutated into a different subject. But until you can be less veiled about what exactly you are talking about, people are probably going to keep ignoring you. If you are really only talking about one specific person, you should probably do what cas suggested and talk to the person or their family. None of us know this person beyond a couple of things that you said about them, so it's kind of hard to give advise or even an opinion.

Emotions and empathetic connections of and with others have never fitted me.

Barring personal anecdotes, and with or without luck at one's side, how one with AS in the past "handled" life is far too ambiguous; one could say that there was a quiet and shy son who never left home, he never married, but he worked with the family, or he took menial jobs that were given to him. This is a fact, and this actually happens now amongst the diagnosed with AS. There could be the "professor" who was raised in a home with parents who fostered his obsession, and then becomes a scientist of great fame, albeit he never married, nor was he interested in anything but his work. There's a boy who cannot control his AS induced aggression, and he dies or spends a long time in jail. There's...far too many manifestations of AS to place people in a single box, i.e., "do or die". All of the above are possible, just as yours is, and mine.

The external environment has a great say on how those with AS "adapt" and "survive" (whether they know they have the disorder or not). This same environment has the same say for those who don't have an ASD too; life ain't easy for everyone.

Remember, one needn't be impaired in all areas of functioning; it's when someone works at their cognitive "potential", has no problems with making and keeping friends (friendship to romance), and they've achieved their cognitive potential in schooling, is when one moves from disorder to normal, all without allowances made.

Barring a few outliers, I doubt you'll find too many people who're diagnosed with an ASD who aren't affected severely in some way, in one of the three areas above in the least (school, work and social).

Autism0,
Is it possible that the person you are talking about had high-functioning Aspergers, and then they suffered mental illness/brain injury and they regressed? It does happen. And it would be hard to define the disorder of such a person.

Thats ok, know you were not pointing fingers.

But I do get defensive when those threads go around saying that only the diagnosed are valid aspies etc etc etc.

There's a tally going?

The people I'm speaking of are those who've told me personally (I'm making it personal now) that autism doesn't stop them from doing such and such, and said individuals aren't even sure they have it, and then say I should be able to do what they can do. There's my point of [personal] contention. To bring it back to objectivity, the majority of those with [diagnosed] AS cannot currently do these things either (I can provide a link to the study). Someone may as well defend these people.

"Higher-functioning" is easy enough to diagnose as the only difference between the two is an IQ value, whether it's "high-functioning" or not is moot as it's "high-functioning" in relation to "low-functioning"; mental retardation itself can be considered "low-functioning" to "normal" people. "High-functioning" autism isn't in relation to "normal".

If people can do A, B and C at the same time without too much trouble, they don't have X disorder then. And as I said, that's my personal point of contention.

My other point is that self-diagnosis will never equate to knowing you have the disorder for certain, and saying one is an "aspie" without a professional opinion is a lie.

See #2 here (this is for someone who said most dictionaries have a definition of "lie" that's different to what I mean, one doesn't need the intent to lie; people seem to forget this); this is one of the two links to "lie" I've now provided that say the same thing:



And here's another one (see #3):

I thought of posting again but decided that what I wanted to say would illustrate too well that my black-and-white thinking is DEFINITELY an autistic spectrum trait.

Z