I want to be cured.

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The outward manifestations of the more severe autism only look like agony to those who look on it because they don't understand that a real mind resides in that body. Those who have managed to break through have so far not made any complaints about their plight that I've ever heard of. Post a link if I'm behind the times.

Only because society has decided it must, kicking and screaming, drag them into being as normal as can be. Though Gary above me has a pretty good argument here - you might want to read it.

Tends to be what happens when society really screws people up...

That is not an argument at all for a cure for Autism - its an argument for changing society and making it meritocratic.

Oh - whoever speaks the loudest gets heard. Great system...

Ha - what a great comparison to make.

Nah - if such a cure comes along I will use my freedom of choice in a different direction. There would be obvious targets in dealing with any cure or eugenics program.

It shows that NT's can be morons - though I would say that people with "mental illness" are medicated and hospitalised way too often, rather than actually helping the people its a lot more convenient to keep people doped up. So they do have a basis, albeit one taken way too far and being used for the wrong reasons.

A socialist meritocracy is a lot better (and more practical) solution to our problems, the key is to pretend whatever societal structure we set up is totally nothing to do with us. We just have to "accidentally" benefit from it. Bear in mind there are plenty out there who hate society out there, we might even be a subset of a majority here if we come up with an effective enough dressing up.

Though of course there are more efficient ways of dealing with society - certainly we would not be asking them to do anything. We would be telling them. Targeting their social structures would be a start and what better rallying cry than someone coming up with an actual cure of sorts.

They'll have severe sensory issues whether they are left alone are not. Sensory issues are part of the diagnostic criteria and are inborn into them not made. Those who did not mind being severely autistic and would even like to be that way are extremely selfish, BTW. If no one helped them at all, we would have to do all these time wasting, money spending accommodations that could have went to something else. They probably could have been taught how help benefit society as a whole themselves.



There are people who have been in far worse situations than them and don't resort to that. Like, people who have witnessed actual genocide, not the fake paranoid genocide you're talking about.



That makes NO sense. They're going to be that way no matter what different rules are made. Social cues are unwritten laws that cannot be changed by legislation or some documentary pleading for change. No matter what you do, we'll be viewed as weird and mess up whatever new standards they set for us because we're socially ret*d. AS affects everyone in different ways so what may work for one person might be worse for another.



I didn't say that. Do not put words in my mouth. Anti-cure is just a fringe group. There are bizarre causes all over the place for all sorts of ridiculous nonsense and most fade into obscurity in a few years. If your ideals suddenly became the majority, everyone who could actually makes a difference on whether there is a cure of not will still scratch their heads of why you do not want to get better when the opportunity is presented to you because they know the reality for sufferers because they have studied it for years and years unlike you who is only going on your personal experience.



A disorder is a disorder is a disorder. If something is missing from you that everyone else has and it negatively impacts and you need it to survive, it is a disorder.
How about replacing autism with OCD or anxiety? Less severe, but still debilitating. Autism is a spectrum from very mild to very severe, so it doesn't matter what mental problem you compare it with.



Go ahead and fight it. You will most likely still have every right to do so. BTW, curing autism is not eugenics, it is just fixing a problems that interfere with the sufferer's life.



And we can't? This smug, arrogant attitude many of you anti-cure people have is not helping your cause.



That will never happen as we are only equal by law, not ability or status. This is be reflected no matter what rules are put down on ink because these things are innate.



Will never happen. Most people with AS are crap at being manipulative.



Huh? Those people are more than likely not socially ret*d, but want to rebel for different reasons. They will more than likely shove us out of way because we're too socially weak to help them with their goals. Being a majority doesn't matter if the minority can maneuver their way to the top.
Are you talking about a revolution? Sorry, that is bizarre and unlikely. That takes years of organization and planning, you might even need to resort to extreme violence to overthrow the main society. Are you sure you want to imply such things over the Internet where you can get into legal trouble?



Why can't you just tell them right now? If you do not understand someone's idioms, just ask them to say the literal meaning. If the room is too loud and overstimulating, ask the owner of the house to advise everyone to keep it down. We do not need a whole movement or rally to do this. Why should there be any establishments to make norms for ourselves when we can simply tell them your problem and they'll fix it to the best of their ability.

Is the reason you don't like it that it is true?

I don't like how some with AS tend to exaggerate the good traits of being NT.

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Again, There WILL NOT be a cure. They don't care about fixing your life, they probably do care about preventing future people from being autistic, so if it is genetic they will isolate the gene, if it is caused by other things, they will find out and prevent it from happening. That's how they will wipe the autism disorder, they will never 'fix' any of us - If they EVER do.

Last edited by Vexcalibur on 08 Jan 2009, 12:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

Real genocide is the actual death of someone. No one is out to kill us.

It's like saying that cure blindness is genocide for the blind because the advantage of losing one sense is that the others increase.

There are always people who say they were not aware of how ill they were until they got help.



I can deal with that. I would not want them to go through what I went through.

Last edited by the_enigma on 08 Jan 2009, 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

IF they find a gene, and they begin stopping people from ever being born with it, it will be genocide. You may actually think that it is a good thing, but it wouldn't change its name. The extermination of a certain gene, that would be the ultimate objective. And maybe that's a good thing, feel free to think so, just don't call it different when that happens.



http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm

Think of the last part of the quote, if an actual cure is invented, who is going to decide whether to cure a kid or not? I guess the government will, and if not, the parents, but they are NTs convinced autism is a disease, so they will forcibly transfer the children to the other group.

It will be supremacy of the NTs, the normal people will make sure they rule the world. Nothing will threaten the establishment ever again. And the funnest thing about this is: Everybody left in the world will think it's a good think.

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Edit: Some bi-polar dudes were some of the most creative minds ever.

Another thing, we probably had the autism spectrum around for a very long time already. Either evolution is failing or these traits are not 100% negative.

Why anyone would want to benefit a system that tortures them everyday? Honestly...

As for severe sensory issues, many they would not have in the natural world and would be able to more easily avoid.

The current system is genocide, let alone any form of test or cure for Autism. Even if it is not direct genocide, you could quite easily argue along the lines that it is a cultural genocide of sorts.

No, no - clearly you do not understand what a meritocracy is. A meritocratic system removes nepotism from the equation, stops people cheating by buying private tuition and so forth. Basically the brightest get the plum opportunities, which will be so to our benefit that we can clear up the rest later on. In other words, its a system that is designed to develop all to their intellectual potential.

Fringe group in the context of wider society, perhaps at present. But not within Aspies in general, those actually in favour of a cure are quite the minority I gather.

Mental Problem!? We should not even be comparing here.

I never said in such a scenario I would be complying with the law - the methods to be effective here would involve some lawbreaking somewhere. Though this can be karted out to the obvious flunky organisations - in fact they would probably do it by and large with no need for our own intervention.

Oh true we can - but few Aspies are that moronic, where as with NT's its a sizable group. By definition we have to be reasonably bright.

By the way this is not arrogance, it is pragmatism.

A proper meritocracy defines merit on an intellectual level, which would sort us out in that respect. By the way meritorcracy is not about PC wiff waff, its about total equality of opportunity. Starting from birth. You have your "weak" meritocracy confused with the "strong" one I would like to see implemented.

Look closely at politics, there are plenty of Aspies in there.

There are ways around all such things, most obviously by not announcing from the treetops that we are Aspies.

I am merely predicting social change, hopefully a non-violent revolution. Legally this is merely an academic discussion - they could never take me to court for this.
LMAO - I can imagine how well any of your suggestions would go down at my uni, or most places in fact. Asides, we should not have to ask.

BTW, when you feel sad about not accomplishing things in life, are you sure it is about Asperger's and not about a society that makes you expect too much from life (and much more than you need to be happy?) Cause it is actually a problem with most NTs as well, the current society makes us thing we need a lot of things we don't, which causes people to have 2.5 jobs and still be sorry about how little they are doing for their happiness .

We are none of the above. There is nothing wrong with the above. The only things that impede the above is discrimination, lack of education and misunderstandings about them. Even if none of that happened to us we will still have problems.



That doesn't mean we should let them run rampant. Most bipolar persons will not be the next Michelangelo or Proust.



Would you say the same about mental retardation? Whatever positive traits we have, I'm sure NTs have too. There are NTs with brilliant memories and abilities to hyperfocus. What NTs mean by "getting lost into" we mean by hyperfocus.

I am not personally bothered about getting a uber high income - for one I would have no idea what an earth to spend the money on. It is about freedom, freedom from every social diktat (in most cases issued for the sense of issuing it). It is about not being subservient to a social system I have never believed in and always generally hated for as long as I can remember. Is that not cause enough?

Wait...what? Sure there are people who have been abused in care facilities, but the law can take care of that. Also, most parents would not allow that crap. Many do genuinely love their children. You cannot barge into every place helping autistics and see if there is any abuse going on. Yet you do have the right to assume so, which means nothing. If autistic people are being tortured, you can say the same for the severely ret*d also, but you don't give a damn about them...



LOL! Even NTs complain about the sun being too bright, imagine the severe autistic. Are you seriously going to try to get rid of man-made things to accommodate such a small minority. If you want to send them to the woods, be my guest! Just make sure you don't end up like Christopher McCandless while you're at it.



Yeah, right. Tell me this when you have a community outside the Internet, your very own music, slang (short hand Internet terms don't count), dress a certain way and cultural establishments beyond, "No cure, please." We don't even socialize the same way as autism is a varied spectrum.



I know that. However, I live in reality. Your AS has hindered you from making connections and networks that benefit as well as any nepotism. Oh, and those rich parents who bribe their kids to get into colleges by massive donations actually benefit those who need scholarship money because some of the donation money goes to scholarships. The rich getting everything they want is not fair, but that's life. When you mature, you'll understand that life is not fair.

Also, nepotism is not always as obvious as you say it is. People have sneaky and creative ways doing this. My sister has a friend that works at CVS where his father works high up in the corporation. His father happened to hire him and all his friends under the condition that his friends pretend they don't know his father. In a movie theater I went to, everyone I saw working there went to my school. I was told that they usually hire groups of friends at a time. That's not nepotism, but just as unfair. There is no way you can get around nepotism because it is an unwritten fact of life and no written rules can squash it.



Where have you been? People have attempted this for years and it is already happening, it just hasn't reached everyone yet.



How would you know that? Have you taken a poll? If you're going to do this, make sure it is in an unbiased place. Have most aspies even heard of the anti-cure movement? It doesn't matter anyway, as just because you're in the majority doesn't mean you're right as you said Oh - whoever speaks the loudest gets heard. Great system...



Yes we should. If something in your mind is inhibiting you from living a regular life, it is a mental problem. In our case, it is socializing.




Hooray for idealism! You'll even get abused by prisoners in sick ways while serving time and I don't mean political prisoners...



We show our stupidity differently.



Probably mostly by the skills that NTs use best. Where are they? Please do not speculate, I want confirmed answers.



They might not found out the actual diagnosis, but they will figure out that we're socially weak. How do you think we got bullied at school? Kids don't know diagnostic labels, but they do know you're weird and how to get over on you. I'm sure this is even easier for adults.



Your views are extreme. If you get in trouble for something related to this by a demonstration gone haywire, they can use this to prove you right. Actually writing it down, yet nothing much happening won't really do anything to you.



Uh, I have asked before and people listened with no problem. Stop being shy, awkward, and anxious then people will listen. It's not a big deal. Even if it doesn't go your way, people are a**holes, deal with it.
Also, this is the reason why we are disordered in the first place, influences beyond our control impair us, normal influences that does not bother the average person. If you do not want to be cured, learn to deal with your disability like everyone else.



ROFLcopters! Weren't you speaking against the rich doing the same before? You are worse than they are as you are not giving anyone anything in return. You feel so entitled don't you? So entitled that you can only open your mouth for what YOU want to say, everything else is just tiresome for you and your superior species. Those NTs should bow down to you for your neurological ancestors' achievements although you yourself have probably not accomplished anything significant. Don't worry! You will someday as you are magically special by default. Not.

Last edited by the_enigma on 09 Jan 2009, 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Still reading stuff into what I wrote. You seem to think I had some point other than what I actually said. Um, no. I was just pointing out a factual error. This is an aspie board. Sometimes we post things without ulterior motives.

If the condition is determined by genetic makeup there is unlikely to be a "cure". One must resort to coping strategies. It is like being color blind. There is little for nothing that can be done, but one can learn to use gray-scale cues to guess the colors. Gene therapy is unlikely to be effective in a fully grown person.

ruveyn

I guess I don't have AS then. I wish some of the doctors I've met realized this.

Do you have a point? Because what you post sure doesn't follow from what I said.

Sometime there comes a point when you have to let people put the 'head pan' on and throw the volts. Everybody has their own unique threshold as to how much 'distorted' reality thay can accept until they have a need to conform. That's just life and to each his own.