First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Yes and no. NT's know that there are 'nerds'/'geeks' and these are socially acceptable these days, even desired qualities (Think Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Hyper intellectuals, etc). So we know if a person may be nerdy, but i think for a lot of NTs, they don't really know about Asperger's, they'd prob just think, "oh he's/she's a socially awkward introvert, that's cool." (Tho some NTs might be a b***h/bully about it, don't talk to them, they are lame anyway and really have nothing interesting to say.)

For me, I get excited because I'm in on the secret (I've done a ridiculous amount of research). I think, "Hey, they might be an ASP... I wanna go talk to them." I really enjoy getting to know ASP because they have such severe interests and if I'm patient, they may be willing to tell me about it and I get too learn about something new that maybe I've never heard of before. My friend is an ASP and taught me to play pinball because he's a big gamer and I learned so much about technique and the various differences between each game, etc. I love pinball now, it's so much fun! I would've never had that if his excitement (severe interest) hadn't stimulated that in me, it's like I began to echo his enthusiasm and it made me really excited to play.

The feeling of connectedness is strange. Most of the time I don't feel connected to people unless something comes up that we have in common, or I find the conversations interesting. Friends are people that make you feel safe, that you can tell anything to and accept you for who you are. As that relationship develops, its your loyalty and friendship that grow, this can come to mean love over time, you may feel a warmth when you see them, a contentment that you didn't have before seeing them. But then, sometimes not, its okay both ways as long as you try to respect one another and try to be there for one another.

But then there are times where I start to like someone (Romantically) and all of the sudden there is this weird spark. It's like a longing, all of the sudden you realize that you want to spend more time with that person, that you want them around you, even if they just hold your hand. Their presence gives you energy. This usually means you like someone.

Dear NTs,

Do you feel that before you know someone as AS that their not paying attention in a conversation?

Yes. And it still throws me even once I know about it. I need some eye contact or some signal once in a while that the person is listening, unless I know from experience with that individual that they do always listen completely.

If the rate is about 50/50 or worse, when the person really is daydreaming then it's impossible for me to tell which it is if they don't sometimes look at me. Or repeat back part of what I had just said, or reply somehow.

I fail to see your point since this supposedly is a discussion forum that deals specifically with Asperger. Why shouldn't I focus on the Asperger's diagnosis? You mentioned "experienced people", who are they? Am I not experienced after having had a relationship for five years with a girl diagnosed with Asperger? By the way, there were a few things from my description that was recognized such as "not seeing nuances during conversation, or maybe, the black and white view of some topics". That was in fact a significant problem I had with her.

Yes those things are common among people with AS, but a lot of the behavior you describe is not.

You are experienced with ONE person with AS and you also state that this person has other significant problems. Other people here who have AS or are NTs familiar with people with AS have said that they do not recognize the features you describe (other than the small subset about nuances and rigid thinking) as typical of AS. My sense is that you are attributing to the AS things that don't really fit. I respect your experience, but I don't think generalizing from it in the way that you have will help you or anyone else to better understand people with AS and the possibilities of romantic relationships with them.

In any case, I wish you better fortune in your future relationships.

If I may interject, as an impartial observer...I think it's possible you have taken what Adamantium said too literally. Or possibly have misintrepreted it. Adamantium did not say you can't talk about Aspergers here. Just said in that one case, it seems in attributing all symptoms to Aspergers, the focus may have been too narrow. Even by your own telling, you think some of the other symptoms could be other things.

Adamantium wasn't trying to scold you, just was agreeing with what you said I think - that Aspergers might only be a small part of the story.

Thing is something like that really should be diagnosed by a professional. We can't really tell you. We can only go from our past experiences, which I think is what was meant by "experienced" people here.

Not sure why you'd want advice if as you say you have five years' experience...not sure either why that should be relevant if ours isn't. (The real key here I think is to take advice in the helpful spirit given, not as an attempt to show you up somehow, which I don't personally think anyone tried to do.)

From where I sit, it seems you have gotten angry when all that's happened is people have agreed with your own theory.

You have it right, Popsicle.

I seem to have a gift for putting things in ways that can be misinterpreted and piss people off!

I did not mean this is not a good place to discuss Aspergers! This is the best place that I have found for that.

Please understand I am not critiquing you.

It upsets me, reading you are distressed by the responses you get. Rereading your original post, it seems to me that you may be looking for answers in a diagnosis, and I don't think you will find them.

Autism and Aspergers are not like a traumatic brain injury, and although you may find advice different places about relating to people with autism and Aspergers, there is an expression that I think goes "if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism". Yes, there are commonalities, but they are important only in the context of a genuine liking and attachment for the person. That is what makes it worth going through difficulties, and that is what makes it worth giving some things up and changing for the other person. Please don't take this as condescending, I am saying what I am because you seem genuinely confused and upset. Realize, though, that no diagnosis will adequately explain, nor excuse, a lack of consideration and attachment for one's partner, nor should it.

I guess what I want to convey also is that it it is really hard to relate to someone who thinks differently, and if you are NT and your girlfriend isn't, it is then more work to understand one another and to be happy together. As far as how to behave, you can be more direct, so long as you are not unkind, to your AS girlfriend, but she is first and always a human being with needs and feelings, and is not going to be fully understandable using the Asperger's label. As none of us are fully understandable based on gender, skin color, occupation, medical illness, or any other characteristic. AS describes aspects of a person, but it is not the whole person. If you love your girlfriend, understanding AS more is likely to be helpful, but it is not like alcoholism where specific responses may be more or less helpful in surviving a difficult situation. There's controversy how much and when AS is a disorder versus something that in specific ways and when not too intense, can be enjoyed and productive. I don't want to in any way be part of that, not coming down on either side, just saying, there can be ways to find some positives about AS. That is part of the reason why I and many others have been bothered by a group that portrays autism as the enemy. It is not cancer. It describes aspects of a person. And a human being should not be the enemy, no matter how different. Certain AS traits may help make wonderful things happen, a person may have a tremendous capacity to focus, or see things in a slightly different way that allows for new solutions to emerge, etc.

If your relationship is or has changed you into someone else, you may need relationships with other people, regardless whether you stay with your girlfriend. There are some books and websites about AS and NT relationships and what I've seen recommends if you are in such a relationship building up your connections with other NTs.

Not saying your girlfriend is or isn't NT, others have weighed in and you seem dissatisfied with the responses. What I am saying, is that people are human beings first and always. Your girlfriend's diagnosis, whatever it is, can't be the first thing you think of, nor how you define her and your relationship, if you want to ever be happy. Because if AS is accurate, she may learn, she may change, she may grow, but she will continue to be just a little bit different, or maybe more than a little bit different, and you both deserve more than a relationship that is about labels and disorders. You deserve a relationship that is about love and connection and respect. From her to you and from you to her. NT or AS, it doesn't matter. Love isn't about labeling. And the labeling won't fix what is wrong.

wow, that is some very poignant advice.

Yes that was very well written and insightful.

There is a lot of good advice in this topic.

Such as Adamantium's and other people's.

Maybe not, I mean, I got what you meant.

I understood you too, Adamantium. And find what you write helpful.

On a different topic, this not being a response to Rimbaud65, I am looking for ideas. I have been encountering this attitude as if AS is almost a terrible, tragic, terminal, and contagious disease, along with a very us versus them mentality. Avoidance of the individuals would be difficult, and education isn't the answer, they already have the information. Wondering about any responses that are useful, and satisfying, for this type of thing. So far, cheerful sarcasm seems to work best. But wondering how others respond.

Who are you referring to? Who is 'they,' or 'the individuals?'

Sometimes it is the parents of children in school with my children. And many act like I am contagious, too, which seems to relate to how well my children are fitting in. More an issue with NTs doing this. But though kinder to me and my children, there is a mom of an AS child who fits what I am describing.

Sometimes it is a coworker who cares greatly about appearances. I'm unsure, but a number of people have suggested this person has AS.

You have been encountering this in the actions of others in specific contexts. Can you elaborate on that? I think it might make a big difference in potential responses.


I take it this means you can't avoid them and you don't expect their conduct to change based on information about ASD (about you? someone you love? care for?) You conceive of their behavior as hostile, not ignorant--is that right?

I find that sarcasm almost never works except as a kind of humor that helps bond with others facing the same bad situation. It's hostile.

My basic response to this kind of thing is to be transgressively factual. Break whatever conventional barriers prevent you from having a conversation with these people and tell them very directly that you are bothered by the way they have behaved and the things they have said. You can then either mutually agree to a better relationship, one in which you will exchange perspectives with them and may be able to educate them on a deeper level than the facts. Alternatively, you can agree to disagree and mutual avoidance in which both parties rely on polite convention to insulate a hostile relationship.

One recent situation was a parent who wants to make her child who has ASD perfectly normal, and does a really good job of it, though does not think her child should know, and says her child does not know, she has ASD. I'm not that way, my child who has ASD knows she was given that diagnosis.

Anyway, this mom recently began trying to help advise me on an activity she thought would be good for my child who does not have ASD, on the surface she was totally helpful, and it was a good idea, but the presentation was so unaccepting of any difference in my child it left me ice cold and confused, I had not realized my child had social problems that needed to be cured until she told me, and it was hard to back away from that perspective. The connection was just her tone as she repeatedly referred to how helpful the activity would be for my child socially, in the context of my child having a sibling with ASD and the other mom having a child with ASD. Someone told me after that the mom seems somewhat ASD.

Another context is working with someone who, like me, is seen as somewhat ASD by others, who seems terribly bothered by me since I confirmed his frequent comments about how ASD I seemed. Hence my use of the word contagious. Though it's also the case that when my children are doing well and seem normal, other parents talk to me and I know there is a problem because the parents stop talking to me. Seriously.

Sometimes it is me, sometimes it is my ASD child, and sometimes it is my child who does not have ASD but is different by virtue of learning disability. At times it is other adults or children being put down or discounted for what they don't know rather than appreciated for what they do, just harder to take up close and personal. It is often hidden in politically correct phrases that sound good and I get caught up before I realize the person's not so pleasant or helpful as they appear on the surface.

I'm not sure it's hostile or ignorant. More like "I can't accept this so it must not be real, and if it is then I need to fix it, and if that fails I need to make the person disappear to me."

That sounds like very good advice. The difficulty I am having is catching that something negative is happening before I get caught up in someone else's discomfort as if it were my own, and that I'm not good at pretending to be polite, which you're right, people probably expect. I'm very good at actually being polite, though, and at finding alternative ways to look at things that allow me to look past problems and really mean it when I try to be polite. But I don't actually know how to pretend to be polite other than for instance if talking to school staff, I understand how to, as I think of it, guide them toward remembering their roles as helpers to my children. But I'm not really pretending there, I'm asking them to get away from being a wall and do what they actually want to do, help me and my children get their needs met with as lilttle conflict and drama as possible. It is a lot of work, though, to find ways to think positively about others over this issue, especially.