Question for NTs about how you think

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The study attempted to focus on planning, which would be abstract. I didn't specify. Interestingly, I find it hard to imagine how one could think abstractly without visual thought. How would you tweak variables if you needed a new word each time?

The example of asking an NT in an MRI what they what they were thinking and their saying "I need to do the shopping" is very suggestive to me that there is a big difference, and I would like to find the right question to reveal it. Planning, I guess. Okay, let's try this thread afresh...

I wish I knew. I have to translate these things into visual imagery and it takes me forever to absorb some ideas, and others I have to re-learn over and over again every time I want to use them.

I wish I knew on which tasks of planning typical people normally use "thinking in words" strategies. We will have to wait for the study to be published before we can read about these planning tasks. I wonder if it is like Tower of Hanoi or perhaps the test with the numbers on the balls scattered randomly about and you have to connect the numbered balls in order by drawing lines between them. Some versions have numbers and letters together, like 1-A-2-B-3-C, etc-etc-etc.

For a test like the balls with numbers and letters, which is supposedly a measure of executive function, would anyone here think about it in words? Actually, what thinking is involved for this test?

For the Tower of Hanoi, where you have to transfer discs between two sticks in as few steps as possible, there are no words in my mind either. I could talk about my special interests while doing it and the other test.

What planning tests could you think of that would require thinking in words for you? What planning tests would NTs normally do while thinking in words?

Last edited by btbnnyr on 01 Feb 2012, 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

For things like connecting numbers quickly I definitely think nonverbally, this one game by Danball requires fast visual planning, and I'm good at that. I can say one thing and write something completely different at the same time. Repeating a word over and over would have no effect on my performance as I do not need to think to repeat a word over and over and I can independently of what I am saying. I wrote this post while saying Thursday over and over.

What are all the planning tests or executive function tests that everyone knows of? If we can collect a list, maybe we can test ourselves to see if it is harder or we are less accurate or it takes more time to do the test while saying Tuesday over and over and over.

What about planning a trip to the store to buy groceries? I use a thinking in pictures strategy for that. I picture the grocery store that I always go to, with the aisles of food, and the locations of the food items on a map of the store. I could say Tuesday over and over and over while planning this trip to the grocery store and making up my grocery list.

In contrast, my NT mother always writes or speaks the words for the food items. She could not say Tuesday at the same time without slowing herself down in comparison to not saying Tuesday.

I wrote to the guy asking which planning tasks they used. They usually reply. Oh, it's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_London_Test - like the Towers of Hanoi. Good guess, btbnnyr.

I struggle to learn things that don't have meaning (where 'meaning' means a connection in some abstract model). It's embarrassing the parts of programming I have to re-learn each time.

Last edited by fraac on 01 Feb 2012, 9:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

I'm intensely interested in the way NTs see things. Some of it I get because I've experimented with chemicals, but some of it I'm going to really have to twist my head around.

Well I'm gonna think nonverbally when dealing with that, it's so much more effective than planning on how to solve it using words.

In the shower (without my glasses) I can't read a thing that is farther than four inches from my face.

I don't read whole books in dreams, but I sometimes read chat room lines or e-mail in dreams, and I do wake up knowing at least the gist of what they said.

http://www.mazeworks.com/hanoi/Tower of Hanoi

Are you using words to solve this? Do any words go through your head at all? If I think about it before moving, I think of it using mental video of moves. No words except Tuesday that I am saying while planning the moves. I can't imagine using words to solve this. This is a task on which autistic people tend to do not as well as neurotypical people. I don't know if that has to do with thinking in words or thinking in pictures or not thinking about it at all. Maybe not doing well on this task <= not planning the moves at all? In that case, I guess that one could choose either words or pictures, whichever one prefers and is easier to use.

I can do it while talking, doesn't seem to interfere. 10 seconds, seven moves for three rings, talking or not.

I visually map out the movements I want to make.

Ok, I didn't really plan much when solving this. Yes words were going through my head, but they weren't really complete, and my planning was sorta visio-logical once I started trying. First I fooled, around, then I saw a pattern, then I acted. Second time I got a perfect score. The third time I got it in 9 secs while talking about random stuff, the hardest part was thinking of something to say.

The more I try to monitor how I'm thinking, the more present the monologe is. When playing the piano I sort of just flow, and sort of grope around when my hand slips, but I don't really think of the names of the notes unless I'm thinking about how I'm thinking. I can play the piano and think about something else.

Saying tuesday only delayed the time for me.

So what would screw up autistic people as much as saying Tuesday screws up NTs? Would this screwer-upper screw up NTs as well, or would have no effect as saying Tuesday has no effect in autistics?

What would screw you up or slow you down on the Tower of Hanoi?

Also, what if saying Tuesday over and over and over is offloaded to the "echo/palilaliator" of the autistic brain and takes up far less resources or connectivities than saying Tuesday over and over and over for the NT brain?

While planning the moves the time lagged maybe 20 percent while tuesdaying.

Did you plan the moves first or randomly move them around while verbalizing, B. ?

I get a sense with my ADD that an impairement exists here at higher levels. I made 5 but not within the smaller limit # I just move them around unplanned.

The theory with executive dysfunctioning is a limit in working memory. Verbal and Visual. Either one or both together.

If you cant hold two thoughts together you are quicksanded. It takes working memory to learn new information by holding prior memory in the lights of the new material.

If the sequence never starts then you are stuck there in that thought. Autistic Inertia here?

Here's one: How about driving a car, etc. I notice elderly people have a difficult time learning new things. They can't multitask well and take a bunch of time due to executive functioning/working memory limits.

Is learning a new card game slow?

Exactly. Thinking about thinking causes thoughts to be verbalised (internally) - it's irresistible.

I found the disc puzzle quite hard initially due to my deficiencies in working memory, but once learned I was not the least impaired by any other thoughts. I was just as quick whether repeating a word or not. No words were required to solved the puzzle, all was work done visually in my mental "sandbox".

It should be added that although I didn't use words in this instance, I often verbalise thoughts on complex puzzles as a way of reinforcing my impaired working memory. Repetition helps to fix the thoughts so they are not lost. I suppose this is why repeating an unrelated word whilst solving the puzzle is supposed to affect performance, though I would have thought this not such an issue for those who are not as severely impaired impaired in working memory as I am.