why are they so many AS fakers?

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No dude. The AS RPM scores are not higher than NT. People don't read studies correctly and post incorrect information on various blogs, forums, videos, tell their friends, etc., etc., etc. Then people take that incorrect information, butcher it further, and pass it on to more people. Then every where you look people are talking about aspies being supersmart and being better than the general population on the RPM. Welcome to the grapevine. There is MUCH butchered info on WP, especially where IQ scores are concerned.



This study is used, misquoted, and misunderstood A LOT, especially the underlined sentence. It means that AS has a advantage in RPM over AS WAIS, not that AS has an advantage over NT.

The moral of the story is do your homework. Using WP to understand these things is like trying to take a test by studying someone else's notes in your used text book. BTW I would recommend you read that entire study.







http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3182210/table/pone-0025372-t001/


...........................................Children.....................................................Adults
................................Asperger.........Non-Asperger... Asperger..............Non-Asperger
Sample size (gender)..25 (6 F, 19 M).....27 (7 F, 20 M)..... 32 (4 F, 28 M)..... 39 (2 F, 37 M)
Age (years).....................11.88 (2.62)..........11.26 (3.28).........26.84 (9.03)......... 23.10 (5.03)
Wechsler scales IQ (percentiles)
FSIQ..................................52.12 (28.63)........69.26 (20.79).......46.63 (26.88).......68.74 (17.29)
VIQ....................................63.74 (25.13).......69.78 (20.14)....... 54.74 (25.83)....... 67.13 (20.01)
PIQ....................................41.08 (31.34)....... 64.78 (23.41)....... 39.38 (26.44)....... 64.21 (22.23)
Raven's Progressive Matrices (percentiles)
...........................................59.05 (30.64).......71.83 (22.41)....... 67.67 (49.14)....... 80.66 (18.08)

Participants' characteristics.
Numbers are given as Mean (standard deviation). FSIQ: Full-Scale IQ. VIQ: Verbal IQ. PIQ: Performance IQ.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't 67.67 percentile the same as 107 IQ, and isn't that above average? Or is 49.14 the percentile (100 IQ), in which case thats what the general population are scoring, right?
And please, correct me again, if I am wrong, but isn't a sample size of 32 very small when an IQ of 130 only occur in 1 out of 44?

I fail to see where I was wrong here, please enlighten me.

My mom took me to a few psychiatrist so I can be tested and was close to being put in a mental institution. I always knew I had problems with some being very serious. Back then very little was known about Autism and docs thought we were ret*ds that need to be locked up. And because of all of my issues I did a lot of research taking more tests in psychiatrists offices within the past 20 years. They thought I was just looney, making snide remarkings probably thinking I need to be put in a straight jacket. Obviously they never heard of Autism since what was happening to me were traits of Autism. I've had to deal with remarks from others including my mom all my life because of my strange behaviors. Within the past few year I took online tests like those that I received from real psyhiatrists and psycholigist, just to realize my worse nighmare. And all those test confirm that was indeed Autistic which help me find all of my traits. But these mental health professionals need to realize that many people with Autism and Aspergers are very intelligent and have talents or skills that a normal person would die for. I also want to point out that if my Autism was any worse, I would have been institutionalized. But, I was barely able to make it on my own and become self supporting with all of the mental problems I have. Now days, professionals know so much more about Autism and Aspergers and we don't have to deal with the heartless professionals I had to deal with.

I have to agree with you, there are those who is faking Autism and Asperger, just to have another forum to work.

Where are the facts or personal experience to back this up? Or is it just an opinion based on a feeling you have?

I'm too baked to give a lecture on statistics. The number in parentheses is standard deviation. They were comparing AS to the control group not the general population. The percentiles are used for comparative purposes. There were 57 subjects with AS in this portion of the study. And that's all you're getting out of me right now. I'm going to bed.

I'm Autistic and if you don't want to believe what I'm telling which are my personal experience so be it. I don't have to prove anything to you and you don't have to believe what I'm saying. I'm not hear to pick a fight with you or anyone else but to present what I've experienced over the years or do you need documents for every aspect of my life? Why do you think I did so much research on this to see what I'm about. It's people like you that want me to stay away from some of these forums. You absolutely know nothing about me. You get it?

Ive been here awhile and there have been so many of these threads. I could care less if people feel they have Asperger's. I probably would have been diagnosed with HFA if I was born in this day and age <---that makes me sound really old huh?

Turned out we had to wait until my last child (five kids...we now know I was obsessed with babies and baby things)....anywhoo...she had very atypical classic non verbal autism. My husband was the first to suggest that maybe I had Aspergers and after a psychological exam on my son we suspected he had it as well....my oldest son's psychiatrist, my son had early onset Bi Polar from his father (I remarried and had two more kids) diagnosed me with Asperger's after I told him my youngest was diagnosed with autism. I had not seen him in a long time but he went through his notes and also told me that he remembered seeing me with my son and wondered then but could not say anything because I was there for my son but he diagnosed me. When we took my son to be assesed the psychologist who dx my youngest son with Aspergers at age 6 had no problem telling my husband that if I was not already diagnosed she would be happy to diagnose me.

At first it was a relief and we also found out that one of my older daughters also had it which explained all her issues. Anyway after I got over the relief I got depressed but I now know better who I am so Im more happy knowing than before when I just thought I was an idiot, or that weird kid or person that people stared at and made fun of, and could not get along with most people or that there was something wrong with some other people. So anyway, why does it matter if people believe they have AS than its their business and certainly no one elses.

Last edited by liloleme on 10 Jun 2012, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

I wouldn't be surprised if 25% of the members of wrong planet don't have Asperger's. People have a warped sense of self. I hate comments such as " I think I have Asperger's because I'm sensitive to light" or "I'm smart" or "I'm not social". It's so much more than that.

Aren't some parents / relatives of people on the spectrum?

Thanks for clarifying.
57 subjects in the study, true, and 32 of them adults. On IQ tests, you have a standard deviation of 15 or 16, these tests ranged from SD17 to SD23 among non-aspergers, and from SD25 to SD49 among aspergers. The only thing this tells me is thats there are generally bigger differences from asperger to asperger, than from NT to NT...in that small study.

Really too small of a study to come to any conclusions.

I agree with you, because many if not most normal people engage in at least one Aspie or Autism trait to some degree such as leg bobbing or biting a pencil. It is a combination of these traits that is taken to excess such as a child spinning a wheel on a toy all day long or an adult stimming on an object ever chance he or she gets. Those who are unable to interact with other humans and the list goes on. In my case though I have a lot of issues with many traits of Autism having a very difficult time in the work force, I'm not exactly brain dead either being able to do followup research for what I'm about. Research goes along ways and if you aren't getting answers from your mental health profesionals I strongly recommend it. So is collecting data and doing research like crazy yet another one of my many Autism traits? Too many mental health professionals out there need to become more aware of what Autism and Aspergers is about.

As for sensory overload all of my senses are affect. But hearing and smell are my worst when it comes to bassy music and cigarettes. I can even feel bassy music as well which is very disrutpive to my system so bad that it makes me want to pull out a gun or drive a backhoe loader throw the annoyance. I've called the police enough and went to board meetings over these rude people. I won't even let a person who smokes in my house either. I really get upset when I get an item from ebay with filthy cigarette smoke on it especially after I've asked the seller about it and do my sensitivity thing with them by letting them know in so many words that they are liars. Even a slight hint of cigarette smoke makes me go into sensory overload. But, I just want to point out the most ebay sellers are very reputable.

As for being Bipolar, I don't know though I do have some traits that Bipolar people have. I have never been tested for Bipolar by a professional and the online test don't indicate it either.

In my opinion it's not logical to say there are fakers as you can't even prove categorically that anyone has Aspergers - it's not a medical condition you can do a blood test for - it's just an agreement that a collection of varied behaviour signifies that a person can be given a particular label

People can come to the behaviours by a multitude of different routes so it all becomes a bit meaningless as to what has caused what.

Before the diagnosis was created in the 1980s though no one had it so how were these traits categorised then? However they were categorised could still hold true today - it just depends on how seriously you want to take the diagnosis.

This is a very interesting essay that posits a theory of rejection being the cause of what has come to be termed as Asperger's Syndrome:-

http://www.hoge-essays.com/asperger.html

"Despite the rich and luxurious technological advancements we've made in the last century -- television, computers, spacecraft, computer software, video games, digital effects in movies, and wireless devices, not to mention treatments and cures for diseases and advances in theoretical knowledge -- an alarming degree of negative popular attention has been given to so-called 'nerds,' 'geeks,' and 'dorks' who pioneer these advancements and make life comfortable for their attackers, even if only for being slightly awkward in appearance or manner. The style of thinking of many of these bright individuals is formalized and intellectual, and there is even a label given to those who show patterns of social isolation and intense absorption in developing a skill: Asperger's Syndrome.

In this essay, I will suggest that Asperger's Syndrome can be caused by rejection alone, no matter who you are, and expound on some of the positive traits associated with it. There is no true mark of the person with Asperger's Syndrome. Whether or not someone 'has it' is entirely a matter of opinion, and throughout the essay, I will therefore say people diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome rather than people with Asperger's Syndrome to give respect to this important fact.

I, myself, have been told I have Asperger's Syndrome by two clinicians, though I have come to expressly disagree with them. As I will propose, being diagnosed says little about you other than that you may have been ostracized, even out of fear or jealousy. Later, I will offer a rationalization of the 'geek' stereotype. While I have rejected the label itself, I will still say 'we' to refer to the diagnosed and expect that no misunderstanding will take place. (I'm somewhat averse to being told I 'have' it.)"

Personally I would say it has been rejection by my peers and society in general that has caused the majority of my problems - I'd say it's severely affected my mental health and made me feel I don't fit in. So I agree with this rejection theory. With no rejection a person would be fitting in and not being made to feel odd.

Oh yeah....I'm a faker. Everything that I say about myself on WP are false....Not!

It's horrible but i know for a fact that the government has a department that actually does this for several reasons. One reason purportedly is to "catch" criminals ect. Another is literally to hamstring people from networking, austensibly because they should be getting help from profesionals and to talk to fellow Aspie's (or any other groupie thing) is concidered potentially harmful.

So these people will do all kinds of things, to put up a wall people cant get over and this channels everybody along a pathway of which they concider the appropraite one. It goes on and on, I could write a book about this.

Of course there will be people posing as Aspie's that are predators looking for an easy target and I'm sure the government program had indeed caught some of them but I'm also sure Aspie's should be able to talk amoungst themselves and the program simply goes to far. Doesn't matter though, it's here to stay, like the rain in Seattle, might as well get used to it.

I never disputed you being autistic, all I ask is why you think there are people faking autism and asperger just to have another forum to work? It's true, you can state your opinion without explaining why. And if asked why, you can refuse to answer, thats totally up to you.

People don't have to be autistic to be here on wrongplanet, so in my opinion thats not really a reason to "fake it".

Getting a job can be difficult, especially due to the interview. If you actually get a job that's worth keeping, you do what it takes to keep it. You suck it up and deal with it even if it is mentally draining. You learn to hide your melt downs and extremely negative thoughts. You also learn to keep your mouth shut when playing devil's advocate isn't appreciated in certain circles.

Friends are harder to make, but I think it's largely based on proximity. I made a few friends in elementary and high school. They were mostly social losers like me. If they wouldn't have been around me, I wouldn't have had them as friends.

A S/O is hard as well. However, if you happen to meet someone that likes/loves you in spite of yourself (they aren't attracted to your AS and would be more attracted to you if you didn't have it), you can get a S/O.

AS is a spectrum and therefore some are less extreme than others. If it's less extreme, you can learn to navigate the world. It may not be natural to you, but you can muddle through it. Muddling through the social aspects of my job (external business customers, not pissing off my coworkers enough to want me terminated) and performing the technical aspects well (if I didn't do the work well, they would have terminated me years ago or not offered me a full time position after my contract ended) allows me to keep my job. It pays a hell of a lot better than SSI/SSD and therefore affords me a better life.