Playing the Autism Card May Be Harmful to Humanity

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Some profound insights.
Some disagreement.
Some misunderstanding and confusion.
Some communication.
Some miscommunication.
It's about playing the autism card.
I think with a thread like this, you can take from it whatever you can.
I'm a bit lost myself.

Well there was no horse emoticon, so I used a rabbit.
It never occurred to me that anyone would think of me as a horse, but that would be very cool. I love horses.
I am fine with turning this thread into an animal farm, if that is possible.
I am also fine with turning this thread into a fairy tail.... I mean tale.
I think hay or straw could actually represent a part of my brain function, but just a small part.
Every thing else in my world would be in there with the hey, the animal farm also.
(I can squeeze everything into my minds' reality:-)

So, what exactly is the point of this thread? I can't seem to wrap my head around it. If it's something about the idea that embracing neurodiversity would harm society, well I think that that's wrong. I think things would certainly change if neurodiversity were more widely embraced, but they would change for the better. Embracing individuals of different races has been good for society, adn embracing individuals of different sexual orientations has been good for society as well, so why not embrace people who are "wired" differently?

The only I can make out is abuse torture and ruined lives. All my life I've been tortured used abused taken advantage of manipulated both over and under estimated i've also dealt with domestic violence, mental illness, fire, being robbed and things that no child or anyone should ever have to see or go to and that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

But I'm not pure innocent nor an angel I've lied cheated stole broke things exaggerated made excuses and was spoiled and coddled too many times. After frustrated confused in denial angry depressed, lost hope, frightened traumatized all both blamed another people or myself for things that wasn't entirely our fault and I'm still afraid of becoming mentally ill like someone that I know who did some horrible things and when I say mental illness I just mean mental and to the point of hurting someone that I love terribly even someone I don't even care about.

And the worst part besides the fact that nobody wouldn't even do anything and then I had people flat out pretended to like me or even like me before and just turn on me.

Now the worst part is the majority of the time I'm either didn't stand up for myself at all make myself look more weak and helpless let it get to me Hold a grudge against this take it too far when I'm not even sure that he/she was abusing me.

I don't even know what I could've done telling teachers and help kids just turned on me inviting back probably would've done more harm than good.

When I see people pushed to the point of insanity or taking their own life being horrified I know that feeling going to torture some much they just don't know if it will ever get better or if there's even any point anymore, if it's even worth the fight or if what you're doing yourself is it like in the first place if maybe you were the one causing everyone harm.

Why am I writing this? not to get pity for sure honestly I don't have any clue where I'm going with this.

But I'm trying to say no matter how strong you are disasters bullies abusers ect cannot only affect your life but change it for the worse. There are huge grown men torn apart the pieces and turned fragile by war.

I don't know what the solution is I don't even know if what I'm saying here is right if it's the trauma talking or if I'm just one big mess.

At times I feel silly and out right ashamed to call myself Autistic its notsomething to do with anyone in the community it's just sometimes especially after being called morbid by talking about autism so much I feel like I'm deluding myself to believing that I'm Autistic disabled or even different or special or if I'm just going hell in the first place.

This is from the bottom my heart and is one of the deepest secrets/ confessions I've shared on here because I care about this community so much I want to help the world for both autistics and nts everywhere that I can't do it alone. I can't even stay strong enough to not doubt myself every single time I make any kind of dision.

If were going to fight discrimination and make the world a better place we need to work together and come up with a decision we need to harmonize.

And let's play with some of these people's ideas lets say Autism is a disease mental illness vaccine injury whatever the person believes in. Let me ask that person something besides just looking for a cure that may never come what are you going to do for your child now are you just going to pretend that don't exist or allow them to go through this kind of world, treat them heartly because they aren't perfect over something they have little to no control over, that people treat them like less of a human and don't even consider their views in the world or ideas you would never see that with an aids or cancer patient would you? Wouldn't you want you child to be respected, accepted to be taken as they are and allowed to live while getting what ever treatment and medicine they need ? Do they use shock therapy on people with serious desieses? are they taunted and blamed for their condition? Are they hated and excluded?

Last edited by jenisautistic on 04 Mar 2014, 2:46 am, edited 4 times in total.

Hey (whoops:-)...I wrote this before I saw the messages that came after Jeni's message was posted but then when I was about to post it had to suddenly leave the computer for almost two hours as a situation came up....do not know if this fits in now but will go ahead and post it ....

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5943314.html#5943314

Do we all agree that this message is cute? It is adorable! I believe just about every human being in the world would agree with this. However Marybird and I may have some different ideas about certain things (though at this point I am not even sure if our ideas are that different). It may turn out that they are not, but in the space between these different sets of ideas, in the time between them there is a potential, kind of like a bridge between two dimensions. If Marybird and I can understand each other two different worlds become interconnected, but from another dimension these two worlds already are interconnected. So there are two different sets of equations and then there is a third equation....or is it not even an equation but more like a new constellations of stars being discovered....were these stars always there is are they just now being born?

and added now, two hours later...this is something about math, brains and stars...am not sure what....

That was powerful. I hope it was cathartic for you to write that all out. I think it will help others also.

Thank you I hope it will

You just said more eloquently what I was trying to say yesterday (but came nowhere close).

I was talking to someone else from the forum a few days ago, about how I know a lot of very wealthy, very social, beautiful people who have everything they want and don't struggle with the things I struggle with, but yet I've never wanted to change places with them. He pointed out to me that our struggles play a part in who we become. This is a good and beneficial thing in some respects, even if some of it's bad and painful. But there's no one way to pretend that talking about the hurt of Autism is playing a card because if you choke the hurt down and mute it, you also choking down the good parts, because the hurt is what teaches you.

This time right now is really crucial, I believe. We and the world are at the same time coming to the understanding of what Autism is (that we aren't alone and we are as capable of doing good as anybody else - look at what Vicky did) and what happens next is going to be very important. Are we going to use Autism as a tool, are we going to be a community that helps each other, are we going to educate people - or are we going to be complacent and voiceless because people say Autism doesn't exist, or we should be ashamed to say it, or we're playing a card? In honesty though, nobody has power over us, the worse thing that could happen though is complacency, but it's that we shut ourselves up.

Jen, every time you write, you illustrate this so well. You are emotional and powerful in your descriptions of your pain, but very clearly not playing any card or asking for any pity. You go girl!

Btw, I have a plan I'm trying to hatch (nothing to do with this thread), I might ask you for some help.

This is interesting.
You may be referring to universal time offsets between sets of parallel universes.

Jen, I just read your message. Yes, there's all kinds of suffering in this world, deep suffering, and I'm very sorry about all the suffering you have been through.You are a very sensitive young person to be so caring, and yet also it is very important to not fall into a nihilistic state. Do you have some kind of spiritual group to go to?--just to get that feeling of connectedness and devotion and to help keep things very simple. I do think you are autistic but am not even sure if that matters so much...you just are yourself, and also, being fifteen is a very difficult age--at least it was for myself and my children-- there is a lot to sort out.

I also suggest to any teenager to try to make a mindful connection with the body, doing simple physical activities and to try not to think too much, and when you do think, to keep it simple, such as for example what could I do for a person I love such as to genuinely help that person and in some way make life easier? That kind of thinking can help a young person get in touch with natural intuition and be more grounded. Or to buy a little present for someone who has been nice to me..what would they really like?

I am not sure replaying over and over in ones mind all the suffering one has been through is that helpful. To just feel the sorrow for a few seconds a day would be much bigger or to get up from the couch and walk across the room and feel oneself doing it, to make a vow to keep it simple and develop in a simple way to the best of your capacity, not just for your own sake but for the sake of others... perhaps get a little plant and put it in the window and take care of it--discover just the right amount of light and water...not too much and not too little. All very simple... keep ones room clean and ones body neat and clean and make a dedication to order and harmony--for the sake of yourself is a good beginning, but also ultimately for the sake of all the people who are suffering. A person who begins to have inner harmony and order can begin to affect the world. To stay grounded and keep it simple, one step at a time, and make a special dedication to remember to do this creates a form of music that comes from the inner self

Not to discount Jeni's message as I think there is some kind of insight about herself that flickered through the maze of all those subjective details, but in regard to your comment, people in general commonly use talking about their past experience to avoid facing and feeling the sorrow, which feeling is utterly unbearable, and there is an instinctive fear of engulfment (in the flood), so it is understandable that they would do anything to avoid feeling that. It is very common.

Imo the community and support and comfort and feedback on WP can be wonderful, but I think some gullible and vulnerable people, especially some young people may be picking up from certain people here bad tendencies and habits that are more harmful to themselves than helpful. I am intending to start another thread on this topic.

As far as playing the autism card, I see a lot of people here (but not all) doing it, including some teenagers, which is very sad to me, even heartbreaking, and to see other teenagers who are not doing it makes me happy, as they have a better chance to thrive. I already explained what I mean by playing the autism card. Maybe I will post that again.

Is it actually harmful to humanity?...I have started to question that a bit, and will be writing in depth about it, but of one thing I am sure--it is harmful to the people who are doing it, at least harmful to themselves, as it keeps them encapsulated and locked in a little box, which is presumably why they are doing it, so as to stay locked in that little box which they perceive as being protective and in some ways even is protective. Imo, it is a rather clever device, but not really intelligent..

You'd have to be able to pull yourself away from yourself for five minutes, otherwise it's understandable why you don't understand her.

I said it would take a long time to explain, and also I do not think everyone will be able to understand it. I realized this from the beginning, but what I didn't take into account was the effect this title might have on some people. It could seem and feel to them like I am trying to take their protection away, discount their suffering and even break down their world. I am not trying to do that, but if it seems and feels real to them, then to them it is real, but its much more complex then this. A lot of people have experienced great suffering because they are different and it does seem natural in some sense to form a community around that point and try to be a group organization fighting actual injustice in the world, some of it real, but unfortunately some if not even much of it perceived "through a glass darkly," and to use the comfort that comes out of this group bonding to put a salve on their wounds. This I am not doubting the efficacy of. It really works but only to a certain degree. I would call it a little salve or perhaps a very small quantity of a salve, and I will explain in more detail later. This is in no way to suggest that WP is formed around the dynamic of only putting a little salve on a big wound, but to certain people it is a way to come together, talk about their past experience and gain comfort, and in some ways I can see that as very helpful, but in other ways not so good as it can keep people who might have had a chance of coming out of their shells even more securely locked into these shells, and this is their prerogative.

I am trying to target a different reading audience with the thread---the other people here who do not so much fall into this first category. or, if they do, can pretty easily understand what I am talking about because they want to take the effort to try to understand some new ideas that may possibly pertain to their own brain function around their own autism and/or the autism of their children and other loved ones, even if it is a little difficult and requires effort. I am not implying you are not one of these people, as I really do not know, nor am I suggesting that because it is not a person's cup of tea to try to understand what I am writing about, they do not have life understanding and the potential to understand difficult material. They may understand more than me in their own way.



It is not about this idea at all, as obviously neurodiversity is beneficial for society, and it should be mentioned that when you call an entire group of people "neurodiverse," then imo this is subtle way of cancelling out their actual individuality, as every single human being on this earth is individual, precious and unique.



Yes, why don't you do that? I know this might be a little difficult to see, as you would need to turn the picture of the hour glass sideways in your mind in order to see the profiles of two people looking at each other, but your whole message is about how other people see you and others you perceive to be like you (though many of these people are probably not even like you) and not about how you perceive others (who you are perceiving as not like you, though in all reality they in more ways than not are very much like you).

This is not intended to be a personal criticism so much as just some helpful feedback that offers a different kind of perspective. You are only twenty and I find your mind still bright and interesting, but it is easy to get into particular thinking modes without realizing one is doing it. The thinking could be seen as backwards because it is all about how other people are seeing you and does not approach from the angle of how you yourself are seeing other people and how this plays into your world, and if you approach from the latter angle it can and probably does take away a lot of your own personal power to affect the world.

Anyway, this said, the thing is that to explain why I think or thought playing the autism card may be harmful to humanity, I have to explain two things---one the general principal of encapsulation (pretty much explained for those who were interested in following what I wrote and able to, though there is somewhere further to go with it) and secondly the principle of interdependence, which is actually a bit more difficult to understand, and then put these two ideas together to show how some kinds of group organization around brain encapsulation could possible affect greater humanity. And humanity is very big, and each person very individual with many general common but also many particular contextual factors, especially from his childhood including his responses to various traumatic experiences and how these were built upon and went into his individual psychological make-up. For those who have been reading from the beginning, remember--when we, anyone, go from left brain specifics toward right brain punning (by the omission of details making 'one' thing correlate with everything for the purpose of eliciting a clear-minded response that makes sense in a given moment) according to the principle of the interdependence of all things, which is a physical law, we are functioning as part of the living organism of a humanity that is a tribal culture, no question about that. I would eventually like to look at how this works according to the principle of encapsulation, so how the thinking of one smaller group can potentially affect the thinking of larger groups and ultimately in some way the group mind or the mind of humanity. Will not go into it now, but is there even a "mind of humanity?" How can there be such a mind if each person is individual and thinking about things in his own way, according to his own context, genetic propensity and environmental conditioning plus the development or lack of development of his reasoning capacity?

Last edited by littlebee on 07 Mar 2014, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You do make a lot of good points, but I don't think identifying as autistic is any more harmful to society as say identifying as black or gay or Jewish, which is to say that there is nothing harmful about it.

Don't forget though, part of ASD is having trouble seeing things from the perspective of another person. I'm not saying we're all mind-blind, but for many of us it is a challenging thing to deal with, and some of us probably don't even realize it's a problem in the first place. I know that I have to consciously put an effort towards "stepping into someone else's shoes", and that I have to put more effort into it overall than a typical NT would.

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

Thanks for the feedback. Actually this is what I was thinking of writing about next. There is a big difference between an autistic person playing the autism card and, for example,a black person playing the race card, but I cannot start for a day or two. Also, identifying oneself as being autistic is not what I mean by playing the autism card.

Yes, I agree with all of this and it applies to myself, too. I may be assuming people understand me when in actuality they do not, and I have been thinking about this a lot recently in relationship to this thread..It is kind of painful to write about.

Definitely same here, but behind what you wrote are probably certain assumption about "a typical NT." Agreed, they do not have to put as much effort into it, but why? You did not say this, but when I read this kind of statement on WP it generally comes with the assumption that it is because they were born a certain way which autistic people were not.

I think most everyone, so called NT or autistic could benefit from doing this. Yes, generally speaking, a so-called NT is seeing things to some degree from the other person's perspective, and he may be doing something like this enough to keep the ball of the world rolling, but I would not call this consciously stepping into someone else's shoes.

I think a lot of autistic people have a very big problem functioning...I know I do, and thinking this way, making the autistic--NT dichotomy only serves to amplify this problem rather than solve it. It is perhaps even a subtle form of what I mean by playing the autism card.

Yeah, a lot of people are going to have a problem with this particular thread because of the reason you stated, and I am stating here that I am not trying to take anything away from them. In fact I could not do it even if I tried. A person who is interested in understand himself would have to begin to look at himself in a new way, to make a distinct subject--object relationship. I have considered going into what in psychology is called object relations theory as this offers a lot of understanding about how early childhood experience around lack of self-other differentiation, of not being able to find an opportunity to make that kind of bridge might contribute to or even cause some autism, but the theory is kind of muddled and contains so many different branches of psychology making so many different kinds of interpretations around it that it might be difficult to do so. I do think talking about therapy could be used as an allegory

littlebee wrote:

This comment of yours has given me a lot of food for thought and presents to my mind a new idea which I never previously considered, or at least was not able to verbalize to myself and others, why playing the autistic card may actually be harmful to humanity. When people who really do have the mental possibility to be extremely unique and creative thinkers and make an amazing contribution, or even from a purely genetic perspective have some kind of affect (as yet unknown) upon a future 'epiphany' of genes, so, to put it metaphorically, make a harmonizing music, and we know the greatest music that makes a person weep in gratitude contains some form of dissonance, then autistic encapsulation around imo a really kind of stupid idea of "we are born this way and other people should accept us," even though in some way there is some kind of truth in it, is so enclosed in a little box as to be actually harmful to humanity.

I will riff on this much more and also write very soon about where my mind was previously going when I began to consider that this idea of playing the autism card beiong harmful to humanity might not be true.