why do some people consider low functioning inferior ?

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Who_Am_I
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24 Dec 2013, 2:49 am

wozeree wrote:

Yes she told one person that he was not allowed to ever post in any thread of hers (and all he did was express interest in her subject) and she told a woman (I think it was a woman) that she needed to pm her messages to her so she could approve them before she posted them.

She has absolutely no way of enforcing it. All that those people need to do to break her magical "you-can't-post" spell is to post. I really, really hope those people did not take her orders seriously.

Just wondering, how is it that you know about this?

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wozeree
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24 Dec 2013, 4:23 pm

Because I was participating in the thread when she kicked the guy out. He's not really an offensive poster that I've ever noticed and at the time he really just left a post saying he thought what she was talking about was interesting. She attacked him for that post. So I asked her why she would do that to someone who was just interested in what she was saying and she seemed to think he had some diabolical plan to insult her or something. Anyway, she kicked him out said he could never post in any thread she made ever and said "the W person" (which is what she calls me) should follow him.

The other one I just read.

jenisautistic
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24 Dec 2013, 11:11 pm

littlebee wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

littlebee wrote:

I have never once thought of anybody on this system as even being lower functioning autistic in the way you seem to, To me the young people on Best Kept Secret are more in this category. They would not be able to even participate on WP. the best I can tell.

See, the fact that you say this is terrible. I am not even up to deconstructing the whys of it. It's just terrible and you should step back and really consider why you'd say something like this about people you do not even know.

There are at least a handful of people on this forum who would be described as "low functioning autistic" and accurately in the sense of how the term is applied (and yes, I still disagree with how the term is applied). I want to get into more analysis, but no. What you stated is terrible and wrong. It is factually incorrect. It shouldn't be stated at least partly for the same reasons one shouldn't say "the sun comes out at night" or "Water is not wet."

Verdandi. I have no clue what you're talking about, Literally none, and I am pretty smart and with an open mind and can basically process various conceptual material, albeit some of it not so easily:-). Plus I have empathy. I cry for other people. I want to help them. I have given the link to that documentary on my main thread,and I know you saw the link-- and then asked people participating there to watch it and later asked you if you watched it yet and you said you did not, and then I asked you at least two more times if you watched it and no answer, so I am assuming you did not. Too bad. I watched that twice and various parts watched several times and studied, and later the image of one of these young people was in my mind when I broke down and cried after reading a message from Aghogday to me to me on another.thread about Autism Speaks.

Here is the trailer for Best Kept Secret; http://www.pbs.org/pov/bestkeptsecret/trailer.php

Imo, there is no way any of these people shown there (and they are shown in detail on this documentary in various contexts--in their school, in their homes, in social situations,--would be on WP or would even want to if given the opportunity..They would not understand what is happening here or even be interested in trying to understand, the best I can tell.

I am guessing at this point you have already watched this trailer since it is online and know what I am saying is true, but you cannot let go as you are so emotionally locked into your position and the inner meaning of what it represents to you.. As far as I can tell you are not on here to enquire, but to try to act out some kind of repetitive fixed agenda which you are locked into.My heartfelt wish is for you and all of us who are locked into various repetitions in our own way to begin to step out into the light. To be a real activist is to be able to explain your position, not just repeat activist formulas of categorizing other people (the enemy) by rote. If a person cannot explain his activist position but just approaches from an emotional angle and expects other people to understand, to me that is lazy. It is not Work.It breaks down the possibility for both the individual and the group. The 'easy' road of repetition leads to even more suffering. It will not lead to the transformation of the individual or of society, no matter how much you pretend it will..That kind of pretending is believing in magic.

Enquiry is not easy. Enquiry is Work, but it will connect you to what is real..

ok I am not able to watch the whole documenty now but I did see the trailer

I have a few questions

what was the parents attitude? Did they believe in their children? What about the teachers?

How would the kids here compare to people like carly fleischmann?

Had they attempted acc?

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jenisautistic
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24 Dec 2013, 11:28 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:

Hey! There's something shiny over here!

Last edited by jenisautistic on 25 Dec 2013, 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

littlebee
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25 Dec 2013, 1:14 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:

Hey! There's something shiny over here!

Hey Ho everyone!! !. Merry Christmas!! ! And hopefully thinking will not stop today. Or if it already has stopped long ago, then possibly it will start:-) Maybe the festivity will inspire. In fact, even if you take a few nips of something cogent before noon, if you have already put in the effort to learn how to think, then you probably will still be able to. Is someone who knows how to actively think going to get up in the morning and say, oh yeah, today it's Christmas, so I won't think? But if 'thinking' is just the mind going around in circles, then I can see someone saying today its Christmas so my mind won't go around in circles.

Marybird
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25 Dec 2013, 5:52 pm

If someone is not thinking, they are probably in a comma.
Right now I am thinking that people who think primarily in words must live in a different universe than people who think primarily in pictures.
Like having the words first and then having to dissect and understand the meaning of the words to find the meaning in reality.
Rather than having pictures and concepts before the words and then having to find the words to describe the pictures and concepts of that reality.
I don't know. I was just thinking about it and wondering.

wozeree
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25 Dec 2013, 6:37 pm

Marybird wrote:

I've been in a comma all day, yesterday I was in a period!

(I say stuff like that all the time.)

I wonder if that's why those non-Autistic people can think so much faster than me and just intuitively understand things. They don't really have to translate.

It's weird though because the things we have trouble reading like social cues and body language are largely visual (pictures), so you'd think we'd be great at that. I wonder why the discrepancy. I never thought about that before.

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25 Dec 2013, 7:09 pm

There is something I perceive about people's communication, where it's easy to perceive their motives even if they're trying to hide them or lie to cover them up. It's more to do with patterns of behavior and I am not sure how body language plays into that.

I am not sure that thinking visually really has bearing on interpreting body language, though. Like, I think visually but my visual processing is not always that great.

There was a thread on another forum I read about how people think. One guy decided to go on a crusade against verbal thinkers and tell them they were fooling themselves into believing they thought in words. Kind of surreal, having a person insist he knows other people's brains better than they do.

wozeree
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25 Dec 2013, 7:26 pm

I cannot pick up on deception either, except as you say if I know the person has a habit of it. In this case, I still can't pick up on it visually, but if I know someone has a pattern of deception, I have to stop myself from assuming everything they say is deceptive (because that can cause as much trouble as not catching the deception). All so confusing.

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25 Dec 2013, 8:35 pm

Thinking visually doesn't mean that autistic people who think this way will be good at interpreting non-verbal cues into social meanings. It might be the opposite. HFAs with greater hyperconnectivity in visual regions have greater autism severity. I have really good visual processing and really bad social dunceness, and it has been this way all my life.

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26 Dec 2013, 9:48 am

I was and still am socially atypical.

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Last edited by Lumi on 26 Dec 2013, 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

littlebee
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26 Dec 2013, 1:43 pm

jenisautistic wrote:

Troy_Guther wrote:

Because low functioning is inferior. They simply function in an inferior way; that's why it's called low functioning. You can go ahead and say that saying this is ableist or cruel or just plain mean. But let's be real, if you had to choose between being a high functioning aspie or a low functioning autistic, which would you pick? No lying now.

im not talking about functioning levels Im talking about socially like the class system in a sense.

honesty im not intiry sure - I have both low and high functioning / good and bad traits I cant cook, wash or brush my hair, take my own medication pick out my own clothing ( I didn't dress myself until I was 10 or 11 ) do my homework alone, I often times have severe sensory overload, most days im either tired over stimulated or completely lost In my thoughts, a lot of physical challenges which im not sure if its related to autism or not, speech issues ect but I am also smart, good at writing (not handwriting though) ,when I can actually get my speech issues under control I can be pretty articulate, when my memory decides to work properly I can remember scripts, song lyrics, definitions, answers commercials, I could competey zoned in to reading, watching tv, writing, rehursing that nothing can distract me, when I get interested in something I will do it no matter what anyone else thinks, I am not judgmental, I am unique, I have a different view of the world.

If I was a high functioning aspie I wouldn't have as many development problems and I might be able to pass of as normal .

if I was severely autistic I might not have as much social problems / people would be able to deal with my needs properly also if I was non verbal using a communication device would help me with sounding articulant

if I was a high functioning aspie I would be more aware of the problems in this world (and my problems in general) and what people really think of me causing me to be depressed or suicidal wondering why cant I fit in when I seem so normal to the nt world or try to change your self which Is counter productive.

if I was severely autistic people might act overly sappy and sympathetic to me and try to cure me or ill be so self ingrous i do severe damage with out realizing it/ wonder off and get hit by a car or kidnaped

Hi jeniautistic. I have been doing a lot of research in order to respond to your recent message, but first I would like to go back to this from page one, and I suggest for all participants here to reread the material on that page. I have thought about this message a lot, and I have in all of my responses on this referred back inmy mind to this message, as I think this is where the real question is, and it is an important question. You wrote in the above:

Quote:

im not talking about functioning levels Im talking about socially like the class system in a sense.

I think before we go any further into trying to answer this question, which kind of a difficult one, it might be helpfulto look at this:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/de ... lish/class

Quote:

Definition of class in English

class
Syllabification: (class)
Pronunciation: /klas/
Translate class | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
noun

1a set or category of things having some property or attribute in common and differentiated from others by kind, type, or quality:the accommodations were good for a hotel of this class a new class of heart drug
Biology a principal taxonomic grouping that ranks above order and below phylum or division, such as Mammalia or Insecta.

2the system of ordering a society in which people are divided into sets based on perceived social or economic status:people who are socially disenfranchised by class [as modifier]:the class system
a social division based on social or economic status:the ruling class
(the classes) archaic the rich or educated.
informal impressive stylishness in appearance or behavior:she’s got class—she looks like a princess

3a group of students who are taught together.
an occasion when students meet with their teacher for instruction; a lesson:I was late for a class
a course of instruction:I took classes in Indian music
chiefly North American all those graduating from a school or college in a particular year:the class of 1907

verb
[with object] (often be classed as)

assign or regard as belonging to a particular category:conduct that is classed as criminal

adjective
[attributive] informal

showing stylish excellence:he’s a class player

Phrases

class act
a person or thing displaying impressive and stylish excellence.
in a class of (or on) its (or one's) own
unequaled, especially in excellence or performance:the delicacy of English roses puts them in a class of their own

Origin:

mid 16th century (sense 3 of the noun): from Latin classis 'a division of the Roman people, a grade, or a class of pupils'
class in other Oxford dictionaries
Definition of class in the British & World English dictionary

Verdandi
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26 Dec 2013, 5:34 pm

littlebee, you're obfuscating jenisautistic's meaning by introducing that dictionary definition of class.

She's referring to class as in working class, middle class, upper class.

Instead of throwing the OED at her, it would be better to just ask her for clarification. That is, not try to smother her words in irrelevant details. That's not advice because I know you won't follow it.

littlebee
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26 Dec 2013, 5:41 pm

Verdandi wrote:

No, there are all the definitions given. I know what she meant.And I did not throw this at her...it was given with love. I just think we should look at this material first, though no one has to read it, as it never was addressed. It is obvious that she meant by class that some people were considering themselves superior to other people.

Anyway, I intend to go someplace with this, so wait and see, if anyone is interested.

jenisautistic
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26 Dec 2013, 7:44 pm

littlebee wrote:

Anyway, I intend to go someplace with this, so wait and see, if anyone is interested.

ok im interested. :chin:

littlebee
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27 Dec 2013, 2:20 pm

jenisautistic wrote:

littlebee wrote:

Anyway, I intend to go someplace with this, so wait and see, if anyone is interested.

ok im interested. :chin:

Hi Jeni...this makes me so happy!

If you look at the message I wrote with the definitions which also contains your comment about class, you will see there is ambivalence in your message, which would be natural, especially for a teenager with an enquiring mind. It is kind of difficult to sort out this kind of material (meaning many complex factors of life including other people's responses and ones own feelings about these responses). But many if not most teenagers are in question about this kind of thing, even if they keep it within themselves and do not acknowledge it to their friends, whereas when people get older there is more and more of a tendency to accept answers that don't quite fit, and eventually their thinking gets crystallized along these lines, not meaning something beautiful like a sparkling pure light radiating crystal discovered on a mountaintop in Peru, or a beautiful snowflake, but more like set in cement. Your mind is obviously not that way yet, and I have the wish for you that the way you process information will always be alive, creative and flexible. It is never too early (or late) to start trying to understand life from more than one angle.

If you look at the definitions of "class" you will notice that they all involve various aspects of sorting and placing things, ideas and especially (in the sense of this word) people into various categories. Now why do people make such categories? Basically it is because of the perceived functional value, meaning that for the people making these various categories, looking at things in this way has some kind of use.

But the understanding of what is valuable, of what makes sense, and even of who is valuable is dependent on many different factors. For instance if a child is raised by a racist and taught to think like a racist, he thinks this way because this is how he learned to think, but that thinking, at least according to our own understanding, is wrong, and interestingly many children who were raised by racists to be racists in the south when they were forced by law to go to school with black children, came to see through their parents' way of thinking about people and realized it was false..

To be continued....

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