Wrong Asperger's Self-Diagnosis

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02 Jun 2011, 11:30 pm

swbluto wrote:

draelynn wrote:

swbluto wrote:

You two are of... *gasp*... the minority who come here. The only reason why you may seem to be among the "majority" is because your post counts are so high and thus your posts (among other similarly autistic posters) make up the majority of posts. And you two post a lot because your level of autism is too high to do anything else of significance in the real world.

Really?! I mean... really?!

Way to sidestep the point I was trying to make. Go for the personal dig so I'll be all butt hurt and ignore the fact that you didn't answer it... nice. Didn't work - but nice. (ooo - look, sarcasm... go question my dx again why don't you...)

I was referring to Meow101 and Verdandi and didn't see your post at the time you posted. However, I will now reply to your post so you don't feel left out. :wink:

Could you clarify whether that was a "personal dig?"

swbluto
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02 Jun 2011, 11:32 pm

Verdandi wrote:

swbluto wrote:

draelynn wrote:

swbluto wrote:

I was referring to Meow101 and Verdandi and didn't see your post at the time you posted. However, I will now reply to your post so you don't feel left out. :wink:

Could you clarify whether that was a "personal dig?"

Could you not tell it was a "personal dig"? (A personal attack. Note, I truly don't have anything personal against you.)

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02 Jun 2011, 11:34 pm

swbluto wrote:

Could you not tell it was a "personal dig"? (A personal attack. Note, I truly don't have anything personal against you.)

Let us say I provided the benefit of the doubt.

draelynn
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02 Jun 2011, 11:35 pm

swbluto wrote:

draelynn wrote:

Or, just maybe, there are a whole lot of undiagnosed adults. I'm not really sure why that concept is so repulsive.

Or, just maybe, the line in the sand of psychology has been creeping evermore towards the side of autism because of the pathologizing trend in America. Did you last hear? 25% of Americans have a mental illness or other mental disorder(Like a personality disorder)! Can you believe it?

I can't. It's BS corporate America trying to pathologize gullible Americans so they can put them on a money-siphoning prescription. Pharmaceutical drugs are big money in Prozac Nation (i.e., the US).

Yeah - because we all want our autism pills... That's what I'm in it for... the good drugs. :roll:

When was the last time you sat in on an elementary school special ed class? Yeah - all those kids are just slaves to big pharma. No underlying issues whatsoever... We parents are all just drug company lackies... and our kids issues are just bad parenting. Maybe we should just spank them. I mean seriously - do you have ANY clue what you are talking about?

Most cases of 'mental illness' are depression. Transient cases of clinically significant depression. Yes, I do beleive that 25% is feasible because I do not believe that brian chemistry is finite and fixed throughout a lifetime. s**t happens. Sometimes people need help to deal with it. And in our modern age, I think people have alot more opportunity for things to go wrong. Considering the unemployment rate, the foreclosure rate and the divorce rate - 25% seems optimistic to me atm.

draelynn
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02 Jun 2011, 11:39 pm

Verdandi wrote:

swbluto wrote:

Could you not tell it was a "personal dig"? (A personal attack. Note, I truly don't have anything personal against you.)

Let us say I provided the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for clarifying but still;

Quote:

"And you two post a lot because your level of autism is too high to do anything else of significance in the real world."

How is that not personal? The word 'you' followed by questioning their 'significance'?

Uncalled for. Not cool.

swbluto
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02 Jun 2011, 11:40 pm

draelynn wrote:

swbluto wrote:

Come on... this post is soooooo NT.

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02 Jun 2011, 11:42 pm

draelynn wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

swbluto wrote:

Could you not tell it was a "personal dig"? (A personal attack. Note, I truly don't have anything personal against you.)

Let us say I provided the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for clarifying but still;

Quote:

"And you two post a lot because your level of autism is too high to do anything else of significance in the real world."

How is that not personal? The word 'you' followed by questioning their 'significance'?

Uncalled for. Not cool.

This is definitely NT comprehension at work. (Which is pretty accurate, btw.)

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02 Jun 2011, 11:46 pm

draelynn wrote:

swbluto wrote:

draelynn wrote:

Or, just maybe, there are a whole lot of undiagnosed adults. I'm not really sure why that concept is so repulsive.

Yeah - because we all want our autism pills... That's what I'm in it for... the good drugs. :roll:

Lol. Okay, so I was a bit narrowly focused in my examining of the causes of the pathologizing trend in America at that time, but you can't deny it was a huge influence. Later, I included the growing psych industry, and the increasingly isolated, paranoid and neurotic average American as other factors for the "There's something wrong with me" or "There's something wrong with my son. He's nooooott..... NORRRRMAAAAALLLL!! !! OMG OMG OMG." trend. There may be other influences, but the truth is the line in the sand has been shifting and it's not necessarily soley because diagnosing has gotten "better" -- diagnostic standards have also become looser.

Quote:

Most cases of 'mental illness' are depression. Transient cases of clinically significant depression. Yes, I do beleive that 25% is feasible because I do not believe that brian chemistry is finite and fixed throughout a lifetime. sh** happens. Sometimes people need help to deal with it. And in our modern age, I think people have alot more opportunity for things to go wrong. Considering the unemployment rate, the foreclosure rate and the divorce rate - 25% seems optimistic to me atm.

Okay, let's make it 30% and call it good. Or bad. Whichever you prefer.

Last edited by swbluto on 03 Jun 2011, 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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03 Jun 2011, 12:02 am

draelynn wrote:

How is that not personal? The word 'you' followed by questioning their 'significance'?

Uncalled for. Not cool.

Yeah, I don't think it's cool. That's why I said "Can we not?" As for my "lack of significant achievements", he's factually wrong. Same for Meow101. I do not really think there's a point to measuring anyone by the supposed significance of their work, however. People achieve all kinds of things at many levels, and there's no point to saying those achievements don't count just because they did not shake the pillars of Heaven.

swbluto wrote:

This is definitely NT comprehension at work. (Which is pretty accurate, btw.)

Is there any particular reason for such a comment then?

And how can you call it NT comprehension?

Here's a thought: Autistic people are not defined by what we can and cannot comprehend. Social situations are one thing, but beyond that there are concepts that I have little difficulty with that other autistic people do not get and vice versa. My suspicion is that this has to do with not seeing other people's point of view more than an innate tendency to not get these things. Something that is important to me is more likely to be something I get, whereas for someone else, their priorities may be different and they came to different conclusions, and thus cannot imagine the steps I took to get to where I did and vice versa.

It is not NT for Draelynn to analyze your statement and conclude you were making a personal jab. It's not as if autistic people are somehow unable to comprehend insults. I came to the conclusion that you could have been making a jab, but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and see where you'd go - as it turned out, you ignored my response (at least as far as replies go) just as you apparently ignored my response the last time you said I accomplish nothing more than spending all my time on this forum and playing WoW, at least until you confirmed it was a jab.

I am uncertain what your intended outcome was for saying such a thing, as you had no way to test its accuracy and Meow101 had already talked about diagnosing people with AS (thus suggesting she actually has a job that involves diagnosis). I have talked about doing professional writing, which does in fact mean there are books with my name in them out in the real world.

So why make such a claim when you have a very narrow slice of life to make such a judgment from?

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03 Jun 2011, 12:11 am

Verdandi wrote:

It is not NT for Draelynn to analyze your statement and conclude you were making a personal jab. It's not as if autistic people are somehow unable to comprehend insults.

Here's a thought: She didn't analyze it to understand that it was a personal jab. She intuitively understood the emotional subtext of the communication and 'knew' the intention, and then later analyzed it to provide evidence to you to support her claim of my intention. THAT is NT comprehension.

However, just because she lacks the social comprehension deficits typical of Aspergers doesn't mean that she isn't Aspergian. It's quite possible to have repetitive behaviors and/or obsessive interests without lacking NT comprehension and general "NT" kind of thinking. So, in her case, it's quite possible she comprehends like an NT (And, in at least some ways, think like one), but acts in a way characteristic of autism.

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03 Jun 2011, 12:17 am

So why the personal jab?

swbluto
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03 Jun 2011, 12:19 am

Verdandi wrote:

So why the personal jab?

It's play fighting.

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03 Jun 2011, 12:23 am

swbluto wrote:

Seph wrote:

swbluto wrote:

I'm of the anti-corporate-agenda mentality.

I'm trying to say that I don't think it helps to say to someone that one doesn't know and who's only contact with is over the internet that they effectively have no problems. It's like... saying to someone walking with a cane that they don't really need to walk with a cane since they aren't in a wheelchair and that they're gullible for believing they had to go out and buy a cane. All the while not even being able to see the person.

No, I'm not saying that people can't improve or some people are worse off in ways that most aren't. But to pursue an ill-fitting label because of it, because that's the trend in America due to various factors (Such as the corporate agenda, the growing psych industry, and the increasingly isolated, paranoid and neurotic average American.), is simply ludicrous and it's sad to see many fall prey to a false self-diagnosis in that pursuit.

The purpose of any diagnosis is to match patients with treatments. When someone diagnoses himself it's the same thing. He sees that he matches up pretty close and sees that people with ASD have success doing certain things about it. If he's wrong about it, who really cares? He's just trying to better himself. If his symptoms continue to be troublesome he can get professional help with it. I don't really see an issue with it. I think it actually makes economic sense to self-diagnose and attempt to fix things on one's own if they can.

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Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill? -Cypher, Matrix

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03 Jun 2011, 12:24 am

swbluto wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

So why the personal jab?

It's play fighting.

Oh, right.

Anyway, I'd say you can't ascertain how Draelynn concluded that just from what she said. I've reacted to insults similarly in the past, and I don't usually explain how I concluded it was an insult.

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03 Jun 2011, 12:37 am

It's okay Verdandi - I know its play fighting. It's all cool!

But you - MISTER - it is not NT to understand grammer and syntax - a good portion of your average Aspies are hyperlexic. All that reading into emotional subtexts... HA! I have past experience to guide my judgement of the current situation. How many times did i need to read it to 'get it'? HMMMMM... you'll never know. All you know is that I got it right. There is more than one way to get a right answer - that works on emotional subtext as well as calculus...

No picking on people personally! It derails otherwise good conversations!

I really do think all that 'rampant misdiagnosis' crap is just that - crap. Doctors are notorious for getting it wrong ALOT. With just about everything. Sure, there are some amazing good doctors out there but they didn't all graduate at the top of their class. The ones that barely graduated at the bottom of their class are also in the mix and playing doctor badly too. Any time a new DX or new condition arises, there is always a surge of dx's and wrong ones at that. ADHD is a classic example. All hyper kids are not ADHD. Parents and teachers would LIKE them to be. Too bad the meds for ADHD don't calm down EVERYONE - only the kids with neurotransmitter receptor deficiencies. Give Ritalin to an NT kid - he speeds his face off or gets violent. Pretty easy to tell if they got the dx wrong. There is a percentage of wrong dx's in all conditions but especially in NEW ones. Autism is just a hot topic to focus that on.

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03 Jun 2011, 12:42 am

Verdandi wrote:

swbluto wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

So why the personal jab?

It's play fighting.

Oh, right.

Anyway, I'd say you can't ascertain how Draelynn concluded that just from what she said.

Oh, yes I can. Because, from the emotional subtext of her communication, I could tell she was butt hurt (or at least annoyed) despite claims otherwise. And, from that, I could definitely that the emotional reaction was 'instinctive' in the way that the comprehension was 'natural' and not artificial like it would be if it were 'analyzed'.

Quote:

I've reacted to insults similarly in the past, and I don't usually explain how I concluded it was an insult.

That's the thing - for NTs, it's not analytical or something that you "conclude" as if you're purposefully 'examining the evidence'. It's something you understand right away and your emotions reflect this understanding.

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