Social Skills Training for Adults

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According to this Doctor... Yes they do. Also I am glad you brought this up because it is a thought I had later in the evening but did not have time to post due to my jammed packed schedule the past 24 hours. This very point is the reason I have learned to just be honest. The fact is that I cannot pull off any sort of social lie. I never have been able to. People always tell me that I "show" exactly what I feel. I cannot tell you the times I have tried to lie and people think it is sarcasm or disrespect. So now I just try to tell the truth in some manner or avoid the question completely by being rude or making a joke. The only way to answer the question, "Does this xyz make my ass look fat" is to quickly look away while shouting, "Squirrel!!"

This topic points to just those issues in my social interactions exactly. I have body Language obviously but I do not know how to control it yet. I believe that I can make the right body Language for a statement that is truthful. So I figure that I have to study that body Language and then try to put words in that are opposite while keeping with that body Language. I haven't tried it yet but I think it will be similar to the effort required for when I taught myself to pat my head and rub my belly at the same time. I will spepnd some effort on this during the week and report back my learning. This actually might be a really big help for me if I can somewhat master it!

This is where I'd really like to see if he truly gets it. Is he really under the impression that because you are picking up the skill that it has somehow imparted understanding as well? Does he really believe that these skills will ever be anything more than acting in order to make everyone else more comfortable? I go back to my nemesis - the lying. I have learned the social lie thing. That doesn't mean that it doesn't instill instant guilt everytime. The 'truth' is locked down behind a mask of polite social gestures (that I carefully monitor thoughout the ordeal) and it is just screaming to get out. Sometime literally drowning out the conversation around me. If I'm forced into a situation where I need to employ too many of these in a single conversation, I'm heading for the bathroom - because that is an acceptable social out. Learning these skills doesn't change who you are or how you fundamentally think. I really think they believe that they are changing your thinking rather than just schooling you in this foreign language.

I don't think you're a sociopath! That's exactly how I approach people too. If you slammed a door in someone's face, is your first reaction to ask them why they were standing there? Or do you apologize and ask if they are alright? The way you have talked about your friends, coworkers and acquaintences doesn't feel like you treat them as objects without feelings. In fact, it just seems like you choose quite carefully which people you'll allow into your life - maybe because you are very aware of how much energy you have to share. Sharing that mental energy on people you have no connection to is just a waste - it's robbing the people you care about. This is another thing doctors and therapists just don't seem to understand - the concept of limited mental energy. Forcing your brain to do something it isn't wired to do is exhausting in a very physical way. Maybe the brain will lay down new pathways because of this exercise and somehow increase the mental reserves we have for this sort of thing. I know, the older I get, the less and less energy I have for this despite nearly constant work on it.

It's starting to look as if your therapist has a few things he can learn from you, if he can realize that he's missing some important points.

I'm quite happy to lie to people if that's what they want. What pisses me off is when people do it to me. Why can't NTs learn that I don't want to be lied to, even if it's uncomfortable for them to tell me my ass looks big in something. If they expect me to be tactful, the should be willing to be blunt. Otherwise it's just unfair.

I learned to "lie" to protect myself.

Telling someone I don't want to go to a rock concert because I don't want to go is not acceptable. They will bully and nag until I agree to come, which I usually do because I'm passive and easy to bully. I have to say I'm busy that weekend, or I have to go in to work, which typically isn't true.

Usually, however, I just avoid people and situations where it might become necessary for me to lie. I'm a pathological avoider.

I can totally relate to everything you posted. Of course I am saving my energy because I do give so much and it is so exhausting. I have always claimed this. I am simply "saving myself" is the term I used even long before I had ASD as a label. And of course I am not sociopath. He cautioned me about using that word to describe myself in the first session so he may just not find the humour in it when I say it. I would never worry about anyone accusing me of that. My track record on this earth wrt taking care of other humans is pretty impeccable.

Honestly I don't know if he is asking these questions because he does not understand RE autism or if he is just trying to get a feel for me. Keep in mind that we have actually talked very little about me personally in these last sessions so outside of my attempts at small talk and talk about small talk, he knows precious little. I made the rule that he wasn't allowed to do psychotherapy on me when I started. He is sneaking it in but I am okay with that because he isn't asking stupid/abstract sorts of questions and he infuses information into the questions as well. He also is making the questioning pertinent to the lesson so he gets a buy from me on that rule.

That said, I have already been told by lots of NTs who deal with ASD people that talking to me has given them tremendous insights. The psychologist that I work with on the BBBS ASD program told me that she learns more in one hour of talking with me than she can in years and years of reading books. She says that while she is the therapist, she considers me the expert and actually defers to me in advocacy implementation. A parent of ASD kids say the same. This boggles my mind but it seems the way it is. There really is very little known about how we operate it seems. We are obviously talking but NTs are largely not yet connected to it in my experience.

I may have some things to teach this Dr. too. We'll see. For now I have much to work on this week...

Your "us/them" attitude really is amazing. My NT friend do not lie to me and many other NTs that I know at my job would not either. Should we all wear signs that identify us as "blunt" so that the social rules people know to break the rules for us? I equate this social lying thing to saying, "please". It is considered polite to do so but I don't hafta do it. I can just say, "Can I borrow your pen?" and it works too. Saying "please" just puts a little bit of polish on the sentence in the world.

You're right, it isn't an NT/not divide, it's just people who have one view of social rules v people who have another. It was lazy of me to use that as shorthand, and probably unhelpful.

A social rule that means that people will generally lie to avoid saying something unflattering is different to "please" because it actually impedes getting useful information. Please just wastes a nanosecond, which is probably worth doing. And it's more complicated than saying just make an exception for one person, because if someone is honest about unflattering things to you but lies to everyone else it is going to feel like they have a lower opinion of you.

Wow. The fact that you....
1. Can even conceive of tracking how one person feels towards another versus how they feel about you....
2. Care...

completely boggles my mind.

Here is where I will say yet again that my "version/severity" of social skills (completely aloof) is actually sooooo much better than those of you who are more aware. So much less to think/worry/get emotional about.

I have always been able to advocate for myself without the bullying. Like I said above, I just told people that I was an extreme introvert. After they got finished laughing at me, I would explain that one can need alone time without being shy. I am IN NO WAY shy or afraid of people and that is pretty obvious.. Anyway. Never got bullied so much. Perhaps it is just because I never saw it or never cared. I am thinking pretty hard about that right now as I think this will be useful to figure out how to put into words.

Hey kfisherx! I just wanted to pop in and say that I really like this thread. I haven't seen you around the bodybuilding.com forums lately but I have to say that I enjoy this forum a lot more because I feel like I fit in better. Well anyways, my mother is pressuring me to get better at small talk and other social things but I think it is totally worthless. Well I guess I don't have anything else to type right now hehe. Keep updating!

What can I say, except that you're right.

I have trouble with making deliberate falsehoods, and I won't do it. However, if people make it clear that they are looking for a certain answer, I will often let them have it, but it depends on what it is.

I am in the middle of football season. On the road right now in fact. I always take a break from the bodybuilding/gym things during game season. And that is especially true this year. I am really trying hard to balance all this crap without crashing.

I used to be like you (up to being about eighteen). You are right it is A LOT easier not to care.

Ignorance is definitely bliss... I wish there was a way to learn that. Not that I generally care what people think but, at times, you need to - like in job interviews. People on the street and in public... not really a concern.

Hi, KFisher.

I try telling people that I'm no good with crowds, but they wheedle and nag anyway. Very few people respect my boundaries. Then I get angry and they act like *I'm* the one with the problem.

But, like I've said, I usually handle this by either avoiding them, or simply not talking. "Lying" is a last resort. I also learned lying to avoid social situations from my parents who were not Aspies, but introverts.