Are people with autism borderline sociopaths?

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Define that phrase, please.

I mean that in lots of contexts you couldn't tell the difference.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

I'm not a psychologist, but aren't sociopaths often quite charismatic? Aspies, sadly, rarely are.

Here's a list of sociopathic traits compiled by sociopaths. See how many you match.

With this test someone can find out if he/she has psychopathic tendensies. Do the Psychopathy Checklist yourself here:

Note: between 30 and 40 means you're in high risc of becoming (or already are) a psychopath. However, only a few individuals ever (worldwide) reached the highest score of 40!

Also try to be honest .. it's anonymous anyway.

- Dr. Hare is a professor of psychology at the University of British Columbia, and has researched psychopathy for more than twenty years. The following is his well-known and implemented psychopathy checklist. -

- For each characteristic that is listed, the subject is given a score: 0 for "no," 1 for "somewhat," and 2 for "definitely does apply." (Please note that Dr. Hare does not advise that the layman use this checklist for "diagnosing" friends and family; this checklist, however, does give you a good idea how it is used). -

1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM -- the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.

2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH -- a grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.

4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.

5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS- the use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

7. SHALLOW AFFECT -- emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE -- an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.

11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR -- a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.

12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -- a variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol use, and running away from home.

13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS -- an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.

14. IMPULSIVITY -- the occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.

15. IRRESPONSIBILITY -- repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.

16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS -- a failure to accept responsibility for one's actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.

17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS -- a lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.

18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY -- behavior problems between the ages of 13-18; mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects of antagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous, ruthless tough-mindedness.

19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE -- a revocation of probation or other conditional release due to technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation, or failing to appear.

20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY -- a diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes.

There is a difference between sociopathy and psychopathy. Although I believe sociopathy is on the psychopathy spectrum.

Sociopathy is most often caused by environment or emotional trauma. It can remain dormant for years and be triggered by some event later in life and the personality becomes active.

Those refer often to internal states, which is why I prefer the previous list. Autistics are obviously very different internally.

Ok, let me see. I'll bold those that apply to me.

[/quote]

1. Sociopaths typically don't smalltalk about themselves as much as normal people do. They will direct the conversation back to the new acquaintance as much as they can.

2. A sociopath will reveal "personal" details about himself strategically, i.e. for the purposes of misdirection or a false sense of intimacy/trust. Revelations of actual truths are very rare and may be perceived as a small slip of the mask.

3. Sociopaths frequently hesitate before responding. It will be unclear to you whether they are bored, annoyed, lying, or all three. (Perhaps. I never know when it's my turn to speak, so I either hesitate before responding or I interrupt people before they've done speaking).

4. No strong reactions to illogical hotbed political/social topics (e.g. Octomom or Catholic priest child molestation).

5. Monotone voice (I am told).

6. A tendency to take things too literally or otherwise not respond appropriately to small emotional cues. (I take things literally).

7. Cold indifference to one or more family members.

8. Seemingly a different person when "distracted."

9. Disconnect between what the sociopath says and does, e.g. seems charitable but does not give money to homeless or vice versa.

10. Never shows signs of embarrassment. Easily wins over large crowds with confidence. "Poise" in this case = lack of nerves.
11. Does not fit stereotypes for gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age, sexual orientation, or career. Could seem foreign, bisexual, older or younger, pious, wealthy or poor, but may also just seem unplaceable. (I look younger and I'm a tomboy. I'm not masculine but I don't fit gender stereotypes).

12. Can flip flop between keeping a very low profile (the observer) to being the life of the party (the actor).[/quote]

And the verdict is...

PS- This was a test for sociopathy and not psychopathy.

I don't acknowledge a difference between sociopaths and psychopaths, I use the words interchangeably.

Still, I don't think I should consider myself either just because I don't fit a gender stereotype and because I take things too literally or because it takes me too much (or too little) to respond to someone's question.

No, but you can see, looking at that list of externally verifiable traits, how aspies could be confused with sociopaths in many situations.

I suspect this is more a media stereotype than the standard truth. Not to say there are no charismatic sociopaths, but I think they're more an exception than the rule. I suspect a lot of sociopaths end up in prison because of their inability to understand rules, ethics, morality, and laws, as well as their impulsiveness. I also think that a lot of sociopaths who don't end up in prison find their circumstances somewhat limited due to their social deficits.

Someone earlier in the thread said that most sociopaths are generally good natured, but don't know how to behave that way, which I think is pretty close to the truth.

Interesting how you got your list from

http://www.sociopathworld.com/2010/12/s ... efore.html

The same blogger who also insists that people with aspergers get sympathy in comparison to poor psychopaths who must face imprisonment for their crimes.

The blogger seems obsessed with aspergers but claims to be a psychopath.

I don't think aspies can be confused with sociopath. I think sociopaths are doing the same old same old with trying to confuse people into believing aspergers is like being a sociopath so that they can play the aspie card when needed.

Fraac, you claim you are a narcissist so why does your profile state aspergers diagnosed?

Also, alot of sociopaths have narcissism. Charles Manson, Ted Bundy come to mind.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9jRDHGabp8[/youtube]

And how would Ted Bundy be confused with aspergers? Even the police thought they had the wrong guy because of how charming he was.
Everytime one of these kinds of people get caught there are people saying "There was nothing about him or her that was weird! I would have never guessed!" Yet aspies are persecuted for being obviously weird. Ted Bundy and the BTK killer both had a place in the boy scouts. Ted Bundy was even on the suicide crisis hotline to mask his true self. The BTK killer was a priest and held multiple jobs that kept him in position of authority. Ted Bundy was his own lawyer.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eydw_SvJRko[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4jTo1_wiLo[/youtube]



Now compare it to autism. If you have autism of any scale, try keeping that job. Would a person with autism who kept one job decide they wanted to also be a preacher, lawyer, official of some sort? NO.

You are trying too hard with your reaching and it's very offensive for sociopaths and narcissists to try to hone in on aspies in an attempt to try to morph the two which most likely is going to be used to throw all aspies under the bus so they can try to garnish sympathy when caught for your own wrong doing. People aren't going to give you any sympathy and will know you aren't an aspie. People with autism have a strong sense of justice. When understanding they've done something wrong actually feel guilt where as a sociopath will only feign guilt to fool someone.

Listen to Ted Bundy's biography. He fooled everyone. Maybe people need to quick picking on those who appear weird and start focusing on the super charming fake ones.

Ted blamed his killings on porn. I can't believe people actually believed that. Sociopaths lie and blame anything or anyone else but themselves.

You think bad.

The topic got locked when that happened. Maybe people aren't ready to focus on the charming fake ones.

Last edited by fraac on 21 Nov 2011, 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.