Social Skills Training for Adults

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Funny... for job interviews I still don't care. Obviously I am there to show them my "stuff" but at the end if they do not want me, I never take it personally. I don't want to work with anyone who doesn't want me and I have enough confidence (arrogance maybe) to know that there is a place for me somewhere. I know that in the right environment, I am unbeatable. So I can say that I don't even care in job interviews...

They call that a big brass pair of balls...

And that sort of confidence, I think, is largely 'nuture'. It's taught. I think this something most people - whatever their neuro status - would kill for.

LOL! You're probably right but I gotz it. Part of it is total social aloofness. If I had a clue how badly I was screwing up before this year, I may have been self-conscious about it. As it is I just assumed that other people are screwing up all the time and were "weird".

Popping in to report on my week since tomorrow is next session (doing these weekly now).

Had one complete social failure and two amazingly good totally automatic successes. Actually one was slightly prompted.

First failure: A few days ago a person came up to me as I was eating lunch just to “chat”. She had recognized me from a volunteer group I participate in and came over to get to know me. I did not know how to respond to this engagement because this whole concept of “small talk” being very unnatural to me. I sat there waiting for her to get to the “point” or “meat” of the conversation and did not reciprocate her attempt at small talk. I don't know where my mind was but it was not in the present. She left uttering how she was just there to get to know me (she may have been uncomfortable) and it was after she left that I realized that she just wanted to “chat” not do some sort of business. I feel badly because I may have made her uncomfortable but I honestly do not know if that is the case. I try to stay “socially” alert at work and have a lot of success many time but sometimes I just miss entirely and this was a miss IMHO.

Next Success: Another guy from Dupont plant came up to me just to chat. He came up behind me just like the guy did from my team a few weeks ago. This guy is no longer on my team but was until the last reorg. I recognized it as the exact same scenario and pulled out my "airplane" small talk script (in my head of course) and managed small talk with him until HE ended the conversation. YIPEE!! !! I can honestly never remember in my life another person ending the conversation while I was still engaged. LOL! I wanted to see how long I could go...

The "Automatic" Success: This one is really, really big because it required no prompting from me. Another manager type was walking towards me in the hallway with another person. She recognized me and stopped me using my name. Then she introduced this other person as new to her group. I shook hands instinctively and then automatically asked her questions. Small talk sort of questions. It was amazing as I realized I was doing it but not until the 2nd or 3rd one. I cannot tell you the names of the people involved nor any of her answers and I honestly do not care. All I remember is the manager being surprised at my actions. She had a shocked then pleased look on her face. I ended that conversation by welcoming her into the group.

Bwwwwwaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaa. I am turning NT!

Finally a "drug" report though it may or may not be related. I am feeling more OKAY than I have felt since before my Father's death. Just an overall really good feeling. I am able to up-level a bit easier and sensory issues are less an issue recently though still somewhat bad. I have had to back waaaay off on some things in my life so that my be playing a part too but am feeling great right now.

Tomorrow is week number whatever of social skills training and I am actually looking forward to this now for some reason.

Good Gawd. I am turning NT!

Today was kind of weird. I was in the waiting room working on my computer when two other people came in . They came in individually but near the same time. I felt uncomfortable and went out into the hallway. When the Dr came to get me and we got into his office, he asked me if there were too many people out there. I told him that there was and then told him that my first shrink used to give me crap about doing that citing my behaviour as too anti-social. This guy did not comment but asked me how I felt or what motivated me to do that. I was prepared then because the thing I was working on was my next animated slides for the concept of using up energy by being with people. So I showed him my slides and explained that being around people makes me tired or takes energy. Being alone makes me stronger and my going outside the room allows me to have energy so that I can come into his office and perform.

He then tried to explain to me how the "social rule" about a waiting room like that is that everyone sits in their own bubble. I had to sigh at that.... and then I explained to him about sensory issues and how the air is moved in the room when people move in and the smells change and the people make noises as well. Finally they will sometimes talk and I just don't need ANY of that. He said that was fascinating... We then spent the entire session with him asking me about my childhood and about how I have learned to adapt in situations. He was blown away again by my complete social aloofness answers and actually commented that I was the most profoundly autistic person he has had in that office for social skills training. He said that most of the "Asperger's" people he teaches have a much higher understanding of social rules and social going ons and he agreed that my aloofness was actually better due to the fact that I am so emotionally stable. LOL! He said that most his Aspie types suffer from social anxiety whereas I am just plain oblivious.

We had a very detailed discussion about autism from my perspective and my hope is that he learned a lot. I told him I would only charge him half my rate for the autism lesson. Seriously, my insurance pays 90% of it and if he takes away a learning or two than it was worth the 12 bucks for me to sit there and tell him. He did impart some words but I cannot remember any of them being profound at this time. Will update if I catch something as I play the session back.

Of course as I am driving away I feel completely drained of every ounce of energy from talking for nearly the full time. I am anxious and stim the rest of the day and intend to be mostly mute tomorrow. That was actually a pretty hard session on me and it was followed by a 2 plus hour IEP meeting for my little. Anyway, I told the Doc we play social skills games next week 'cuz I need to get better at my small talk. LOL!

So again nothing on small talk to pass on but stay tuned. I promise it is coming again.

Heh. Whenever I go to my therapist I spend time outside rather than wait in the waiting room with other people. And it is literally outside - I have stood outside on a rainy day in winter rather than sit in a room filled with people moving around, talking, making noise, etc. Also, my appointments are generally right around the same time as a support group, so it's typically very crowded.

I can relate to the waiting room though I'm not quite as sensitive to it as you seem to be. I'll always pick the corner furthest from whomever is there - and people tend to do this anyway. If you watch people entering a waiting room, they ALL pick a spot as far from others as they can manage and will always try to leave, at least, one seat, but preferably more, between them. Often people will actually chose to stand rather than take a seat directly beside someone. This is less prevalent in the city though, where people are used to being crammed into close quarters. I suppose they just have stronger shields for their 'bubbles' through exposure.

I can just 'feel' people in the room. It's almost like an electric current. A crowded room is suffocating in more ways than one. I don't tend to overload but it is exhausting due to the contant processing of all the passive input coming at you. Though, if you put an air conditioning vent in the room, I'm out of there. Add that kind of white noise to all the other little ambient sounds in the room and it starts playing havoc with my hearing. I have a high tolerance for most input but once I reach my threshold for sound, it all starts to run together into an incoherent mess.

It never cease to amaze me - you have found, what sounds like, some very accomplished, educated, experienced professionals who deal with AS regularly yet they have this core deficiency in understanding how autistic thinking works. It actually scares me in many ways. I'm am thrilled that he is so open and accepting of learning from you. Being accomplished and highly articulate probably has alot to do with that. Would he have taken that opportunity to probe further and learn with a patient that, say, had meltdown issues while talking about themselves? I think your 'obliviousness' has not only served you well but will continue to do so! I'm not so sure I see it as a bad thing. The kind of bridge building you are doing can, and I'm confident, will, serve the autistic community is many ways.

You can have a good laugh when you doctor's are paying $500 a seat for your Asperger's conferences five years from now...

Therapy and an IEP meeting in one day? Ambitious. I'd be down for days as well.

You haven't talked much about stims. If you don't mind me asking, what varieties do you experience? I've come to realize I've tailored mine into 'girlie appropriate' stims - foot/leg bouncing, swaying/rocking, pacing, and the worst, hair twirling,stroking,braiding and brushing it over my lip. As a kid that used to be hair chewing... All 'appropriately' called 'nervous habits' by parents, doctors and teachers. They said I'd grow out of them. Still waiting...

I am more exhausted than I have been in awhile but I cannot stop. Schedule is full through next week. Got an email from the Doctor who thanked me for the analogy of the battery charging and said he used it in a parents meeting that he had last night. He told me that it helped the parents to understand. So while it cost me a session to educate him at least he is using it.

The IEP meeting was interesting. It is mind boggling how little these professionals actually know.... My kid's Mom (he is my "Little" that I mentor) told me that his own psychologist (also a specialist in Autism) said, "I thought I knew a lot about Autism until I met Karla" "Now I feel like a dumbass" The IEP advocate who has 50 years experience told me that she learned more in the 1.5 hours that she talked to me than in all her years serving us. She said it was an absolute honor to meet me and compared it to the time she met Temple Grandin. Oh yeah and another psychologist that I work with wants to go to schools with me to "train the trainers" for CEUs. I am taking her up on that..

Still... It was all sort of surreal. I am not sure what I am saying but these NTs are listening. My doctor also asked me another question in his email about stimming. He wants to know if my stimming helps to recharge me. I am too tired to answer him right now. I have to find words for all of this. You guys all have words. Do you not experience this sort of questioning? Why am I all of sudden autistic? Still seems like a dream.



I do and did all of those. I am an avid stimmer and pacing is my favorite. I have advocated for pacing and rocking long before I knew they were stims. I just know I have to do them. I have short hair now so always wear hoodies with strings to twirl and chew. I sucked my thumb until I was 13 years old. LOL! I also flap my hands to feel them in the air and twirl for the same reason. These help me be aware of my body in space and time.

You are unquestionably autistic in their eyes and you are 'effortlessly' successful. I'm actually not surprised that they are listening to you - even seeking you out. I'm just glad they are listening to someone.

Who would have thunk it... if you want to understand how the autistic mind works... ask someone who is autistic. It really does seem like a no brainer.

I've been getting the questioning from my friends. I write about things here so I can write or talk about them elsewhere, so many things I've posted here I did not have words for before. It's much easier for me to write than it is to talk. I've also had a lot of questions from my therapist, but it's usually about stuff I've already managed to put into words.

The friends who did not tell me I wasn't autistic or tell me they knew all along ask and ask and ask, and of course, I seem to always end up comparing notes with other autistic people I know (although less so recently), and being able to do this made it so much easier to explain to my therapist.

As for words, maybe I should write a post about that. I don't seem to have as many lately, and kind of withdrawing gradually from a lot of communication.

Maybe you're right. Maybe the solution to my social difficulties is to ignore them instead of trying to fix them. That might actually work.

LOL! Like I keep saying. There isn't ANY doubt with anyone that I know that I am autistic. I am waaaaay out there apparently. Last night I had a pretty long 1:1 talk with Ari Ne'eman. He is all about autistics setting the tone for how things need to be done. My problem with his philosophy is still that there are so few who can actually function well enough to actually accomplish things. He tried to suggest that my time was well spent mentoring them into places where they can advocate for others. Much to think about on that front....

In the meanwhile I am being listened to for whatever reason. I hope I can make things right for my Little through all of this. Poor little guy had another meltdown at school.

Your post scares me a little as I am not sure that my inability to see is favorable... It isn't that I don't "care" per say but that I don't see. If you can see it and don't care or ignore it, then perhaps that is bad advice... There are a couple of things about me that are really unique and I will lay them out now. One of those things is that people are attracted TO me. I have more friends than I could ever keep up with. At any given time I have a stack of 10 or more people who have invited me to do dinner or coffee or whatever. I obviously cannot keep up but I do not have the problem most people on here seem to have with making friends or people being repulsed by them. In analyzing this "difference" with the shrink I can only come up with one reason. I am 100% a "giving" person. Let me explain...

When I was around 7 years old I came upon the realization that I could "manipulate" people. I am talking adults, teachers, etc.... Of course now that I have my "super,super,super Gifted" DX, I know that it wasn't about me manipulating so much as me being smarter than those adults. That said, I remember experimenting with this and setting up scenarios to prove it true and it was. I did a couple of things that were pretty self-serving with this skill and even punished a person or two just to see if I could. And I remember then feeling like crap about what I had done but even more I remember the feeling/surge of excitement and wonderment surging through my body as I realized the "power" of this skill. It was then that it hit me. I can use this "power" for good or for evil. And it was then that I made a vow to NEVER again use it for evil. So for the rest of my life, I ALWAYS looked for a way to make a WIN/WIN in every single human interaction that I was in. This turned into me "giving" to people and now I am known as a very "giving" person. When I am with another human being that I care about, I give to them. THIS is why people are attracted to me and forgive me for my social mistakes. They ALL knew I made them and when I came up with my Autistic DX it was NO surprise.

The other thing the Doctor and I talked about that sort of aligns with this thread of thought. He asked me my opinion on work and how it is that I managed at work given all the social interaction that happens in the workplace. I told him that I have always allowed my work to speak for me and to be my advocate. My work ethic is unquestionable and my work is always the best I can do.

He asked me what do I do if I do not like my boss or my boss doesn't like me. I told him that doesn't happen and if it did that I would find another place to work. He had a hard time believing that never happened and figured I just was forgetting. He then gave me an example from his own life. He said when he was in Graduate school that his scholarship was tied to working at this place. There were two students at this place and his boss favored the other student over him which caused him a lot of anxiety. I looked at him and said, "The fact that you can see that he is favoring someone over you (a) and the fact that you care (b) boggle my mind."

The doctor then challenged me with an interesting scenario (probably from one of his other AS adults) He told me to imagine that high-tech did not exist and that I did not have this exceptional IQ thing going on. He asked what would I do if I had a job like bagging groceries and that job paid the bills but I wasn't really good at it and it did not make me happy. I answered him that I would not work as a bagger if I wasn't good at it because I could not be successful that way. Again I stressed that my work must speak for me. He challenged me that this job was paying the bills so I had to keep it. I countered that he was not thinking "outside the box" here. Every grocery store has many types of jobs and I would advocate for another job. Even cleaning the toilets (since nobody ever wants that job) and I would clean toilets better than anyone else ever has. My work speaks for me...

Just thought I would toss these bits in there from the session.

The workplace is ruthless and unforgiving. I would thrive in a world where the quality of my work alone speaks for itself, but in my experience no matter how nice you are or how good your work there are always people working against you. You have either been incredibly lucky or just not seen what is going on around you.

I used to naively think that if I kept out of the office politics and got on with doing the best work that I could all would go well. I still can't behave any differently for it is my nature and I'm clueless how to "play the game" in any event, but I can see that things aren't as simple and straightforward as I used to think.

I work (or rather, used to work) to earn a living and to solve problems and the intellectual rewards that brings to me personally, and at one time I believed it was the same for everybody else. Sadly all manner of other things get in the way such as turf wars, egos, petty jealousies and forever jostling for position in the pecking order. And then there is the people how just don't like you for some indiscernible reason.

So despite my best efforts in being good to others and being pretty good (in my opinion) at what I do, I have in my time been set up, stabbed in the back and deceived all whilst being overlooked for advancement/pay rises or credit that is my due.

I consider myself overall reasonably successful career-wise for somebody with (undiagnosed) AS, but in the end the stresses of the social/political environment at work became too much and combined with other ill-health I became depressed and burnt out like so many others on this forum report at mid-life.

My workplaces have always been decent. Keeping in mind of course that I always work with people with higher IQs. In the USMC, I served at NSA and in Intelligence field. Top 10% of the Armed forces. When I had to go be with the regular services and people I sometimes got into trouble. Most of the time I did not understand why but I know my officers had to defend me sometimes. I got fired from a few jobs that I had that were regular type of work for random reasons. Once for not sleeping with the boss in a motorcycle sales job. But wherever there are "smart" people is where I tend to excel. I think they are more accepting of "quirkiness" and are often just as "quirky" in fact.

I know that "politics" exist in every office place but I honestly do not see it or even understand what it is. I don't have the bandwidth or energy to care about it. LONG before I knew about AS and was given a DX, I learned to advocate for myself in the office place. I have (for as long as I can remember) just asked my bosses and coworkers to look out for me because I cannot see it. My bosses have actually told me that they like that about me. While everyone else is talking in the hallway about this or that reorg and stuff, I am working and focused on my job. I also keep my team focused during these times. Sure I know there is a reorg coming up but if I am not part of the decision team then I don't care. I deal with events in my life in a very logical way. In this way I am also a non-threat to everyone and my work is done to help them look good. I give them no reason to dislike me. I just stay focused and look for ways to make my team and my boss shine. They (in turn) look out for me. WIN/WIN environment I am speaking about above. If I set up the WIN/WIN things tend to go well always and I can avoid learning about or caring about the small stuff.

Whew boy... long time. Last week I gave up my social skills session in order to spend a goodly amount of hours at my "Little's" school advocating for an appropriate IEP for him. For some reason the "experts" all listened to me and this week my kiddo (so far) has had ZERO meltdowns in school. Before this change he was averaging 4-5 a week. More on that in subsequent posts.

Just got out of another social skills training and this one was actually really deep on many differing levels for me. The game today was a primary focus and in this game he threw in the concept of "friendly teasing". Now this is really something very basic and he claims that this is good for his young people because they often confuse friendly teasing with bullying since they look very similar. I thought that was a good observation on his part but I never did that.... or so I thought.

Let the games begin. The Friendly teasing cards where white. So now I have the red (chime in) and the green (question) and we introduced the white (friendly teasing) cards. So he starts off the game with a little intro stating who it is appropriate to use friendly teasing with. He said that it is generally reserved for close friends or friends that you know well though there could be exceptions to this. This caused me to have to go create a matrix of "people" and how I categorize/judge them. The net is that I could use these white cards on someone who had the "Friendly/smart" designator and if there is a professional than perhaps the "Passionate" designator. This all goes to my experience that I "judge" every person I meet with a few black/white adjectives. This allows me to categorize people and then to apply appropriate filters to them. I drew up my schema on the white board and went through the checks to determine who I could joke around with.

So for this session we did something a little different. We pretended but this time the "pretending" part was a little different and this was key in my learning.... In order for us to do the white cards we had to pretend that he and I were close friends or closer than we really are. I agreed so the game began. He started the conversation asking me about what I was going to do this weekend. I froze. I have been so busy that I really hadn't thought of that yet. I did not respond for a long while and finally said, "yard work" and put down my card. He asked me if I enjoyed gardening and laid down a green card. I said, "No" and put down a red card. He told me I needed to add a sentence or two. Perhaps something I do like. I said, "No, I don't like gardening" "I have 40 acres that needs work all the time". He kept the conversation going and I kept getting stuck.

Finally he throws a white card and says, "Boy you sure are full of a lot of words today." I could not believe he said that and I had to catch the "F*CK you" before it flew out of my mouth. I looked at him with a confused look. He stopped me and asked me what was going through my mind. I told him I actually got angry and then I told him I had to catch my words. He laughed when I said the F word. Then he asked why I got mad and I explained that it was because here I was struggling and he is supposed to help me and instead he made fun of me. I had to stop the initial reaction and then I was trying to transpose the situation into this "pretend" thing and that is what I was doing when he made me tell him what I was doing. Net is that I could not just "pretend" without constantly reminding myself of the new roles.

The rest of the game (we played two rounds) I really struggled with making it work. The thing is that I am actually a really witty person with my real friends. Very quick and sharp so was confused in the session. Upon reflection this day I realize the trouble wasn't with the concept of friendly teasing nearly so much as the "pretend" factor. I simply could not make that leap. I could pretend he was a work colleague who flew in from out of state okay because I know them and about the same level and they are both "professional" relationships but I could not make the leap for him to be friend and not professional. At least I think that is the reason.

Two other very interesting things. One is that I regressed. We haven't done this for a few weeks and I was definitely struggling more. That said my boss thinks I am getting worlds better so while I regressed from my previous potential, I am getting better at work with this. The other interesting thing is that even though I had green cards in my hand he had to keep telling me to ask him questions about him. Gawd... I KNOW that is the right thing to do. For some reason it was really hard. Again I think it may be because I was having trouble pretending. The topic was on weekend plans and vacation plans and I just did not feel it appropriate to ask my shrink what his personal plans are. At least I am going to blame that on the pretending part for now. LOL! I managed two games but was really quite stressed out by the end of the second game and at one point he threw down a white card and said something that I did not think was funny. I told him that he wasn't funny or asked him to explain it. His humor was in the phrasing and I did not pick up the phrase meaning because I took it literally.

This brought me to tell him about a class I had yesterday on cultures and how the US culture and Israeli cultures differ. During that class the teacher brought out this sheet with a bunch of phrases that US people use and then translated what they mean versus how the Isreali people view them. I was blown away during this class at the meanings of these phrases because I have always taken them literally, just like a foreign person would. I was really frustrated because I am so lost about what so many phrases mean. Like when someone says, "I appreciate your work but..." It means they do not really like my work... WTF? How did I make it to this age and miss out on this stuff?! I was pretty burned out by the session end as I again learn how broken I am...

There was one other pretty funny event. He and I were discussing my adventures into doing conferences and how my material is useful to him and his peers for a little while. I told him why I did not want my material to go public just yet. He then started to talk about the game. I was completely lost. I looked at him and said, "Did you just context switch on me?" He laughed and admitted that he did and that it was a big one. I was glad he admitted that because I had NO CLUE what the heck he was talking about at that time. I suck at context switching and everyone has to really watch that around me.

And finally I have learned why it is that several local shrinks all find me so fascinating, why I was so easy to DX and why it is that all these people of authority are listening to me. It appears as though my symptoms are actually severe not mild as I had thought. Two shrinks confirmed that for me this week. Anbeund nailed it on page 2 of this log. My IQ is able to get me by socially okay but the amount of work I put into this is incredible. The fact that I can Language the steps that I take is the thing that all these guys are now finding so interesting and valuable. This explains sooo much. Like how my first shrink (the grief counselor) DXing me in 5 min and then with his chin on his chest (seriously had his mouth open and eyes wide several times) for 3 or so sessions... sigh... Not happy but am rolling with this new data.

Last edited by kfisherx on 20 May 2011, 2:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

This is very cool ...