Are people with autism borderline sociopaths?

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The traits of psychopathy that I identify with are , being mainly involved in my own little world. Being obsessive with certain interests to the exclusion of anything else. Knowingly breaking minor laws.

The need not to be in the company of other humans. Appearances of lack of empathy, interest in others.

The more benign traits, that also happen to be traits of Aspergers.

Aint no biggie.

Oh? Would someone take a look at this woman and say "OMG look it's a sociopath!"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ZZmfqD9E0[/youtube]

Would society look at this man and say "OMG look at this sociopath!"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64p7RBvaozM[/youtube]

What about this kid? Sociopaths and narcissists laugh at us or do whatever they can to put those who are different down unless they think it might make themselves look like charitable humans but more than likely not since they embarrass of the quirks of those who are different since they themselves have put forth tremendous effort to compile together a mask to make themselves look charming and sane. Try being autistic with narcissistic parent and you will understand the difference more.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15C79nPbcx8[/youtube]

Not all autistics look like sociopaths. Some do in some situations. The difference between 'all' and 'there exists a' is usually implicit in English but I can always clarify if you ask.

The topic got locked because it was offsite drama and its not allowed to discuss it here(check the rules if you dont believe me)
We are trying to turn a blind eye towards it but if you start attacking anyone(I dont care if its zeraeph tambourine-man, you...)in a topic that is already breaking the rules that topic gets locked.

If there are any similar topics were you are being attacked feel free to report them.

Yeah, I identify with all of these, except I don't break laws anymore.

People on the Internet have said I'm charismatic. In real life people just say I'm goofy. I suppose I can be pretty charming, in an eccentric, Aspie kind of way. People tend to love me or hate me.

I know I'm not a psychopath, though I can see minor similarities and actually sympathize with their plight. They didn't choose their neurology any more than I did.

I wouldn't even dream of killing or hurting anybody in any way, so I'm not a Borderline Psychopath.

The only thing mentioned in the DSM-IV in relation to this is Anti-Social Personality Disorder.

"This pattern has also been referred to as psychopathy, sociopathy, or dyssocial
personality disorder"

Here's some real diagnostic criteria

Diagnostic criteria for 301.7 Antisocial Personality
Disorder
A. There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights
of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more)
of the following:
(1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors
as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for
arrest
(continued)
650 Personality Disorders
D Diagnostic criteria for 301.7 Antisocial Personality
Disorder (continued)
(2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or
conning others for personal profit or pleasure
(3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
(4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical
fights or assaults
(5) reckless disregard for safety of self or others
(6) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to
sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
(7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing
having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
B. The individual is at least age 18 years.
C. There is evidence of Conduct Disorder (see p. 90) with onset before age
15 years.
D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the
course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.

I think most people here agree, autistics make very ineffective sociopaths because they lack cognitive empathy, they have heaps of emotional empathy, compassion and care. They are often very sensitive, have feelings, feel guilt and remorse and are bad liars.

I don't think Fraac is an uncover sociopath pretending to be an Aspie, as others have suggested. it looks that way but I think if you quiz him you might end up accepting his neurology is actually what he says, autistic + narcissism.

Miss Kitty Fantastico puts her finger on it by patiently asking Fraac, once again, to actually define and explain what he means. All along he was simply talking about "whats on the outside" and "whats on the inside" and he is not saying Aspies are sociopaths or saying anyone is one. But he didn’t communicate that successfully, as he has been using his own short code. Nor did he feel the need to clarify when it started to fail.

Instead Fraac mate, you just criticised others understanding of English, when in fact they simply couldn’t read your mind. What a fekkin cheeky bastard You use your own words that need qualification (sub-optimal, preconscious, internal states,functionally sociopathic). Given that lots of AS people have difficulty communicating then surely you want to try harder to be successfully understood? You say you want to spread love, well people aren't simply stupid if they don't understand you.

If you do care, use less of your short code and use fuller English instead? Its sub-optimal I know ( ) but if you want to learn anything real about people, ie your ‘special interest’ you need to think about aiming for a successful outcome - otherwise you are just processing stuff through your brain alone (and therefore, as would be true of any human being it will be flawed nonsense).

The term "functionally sociopathic", could have been phrased “In a lot of contexts Aspies can seem sociopaths on the outside, but of course inside we are very different” Then it wouldn't seem like you were saying autistics are sociopaths. Surely you want to learn from people? (and not as actually happened, just irritate sores, seem like you are trolling, or raise suspicions you are an undercover sociopath who wants to pretend to be an Aspie? )

Autistics are not the 2D robots you project (super-smart, super-rational, super-honest, super-logical, unemotional). That would be simpler for your overall model, which as you have basically said in other threads requires NTs are 2D nob-ends (stupid, irrational, emotional, lying monkeys). I think you prize your superior autistic mind - but then don't see WP as a community of individuals with complex feelings. I think rather you see it as a database to be interrogated for answers regards your 'special interest'. How do you deal with complexity generally?

You are superbly confident in your analysis - no doubt you are smart, but your emotional intelligence is letting you down big time. Do you meet people in your life who you learn from? You will not understand the very heart of your special interest, until you get those 2D 'types' to become 3D individuals with complex emotions that will never fit any model. Don't accept this until you have your own evidence, so therefore you need to go gather evidence in the real world. Meet some real people, test yourself, test your model, practice liking people? You might find you enjoy it .

Cool, you can translate for me.

I used to like people but I lost my confidence when my face stopped looking young and pretty. Haven't spoken to anyone for a while.

I'm very good at lying. I don't like to by choice but if a crazy person needs to be lied to then all you have to do is see how they see you and act in that character - which will never be exactly like you because they're crazy and you're autistic so they'll believe they understand you and they won't. They need a consistent storyline in their head, even if it's complete nonsense. Psychopaths aren't good at reading people like this (but borderlines are). What kind of 'empathy' is where you can see how people see each other?

Anecdote: one time a psychopath wanted to get me fired, so after I was rude to a customer he ran to the manager to grass me up. I ran after him to laugh it off. Because he was presenting a reality where he was a malicious grass, and I was presenting the same reality the manager already believed - that he was a funny jokey guy, not a psychopath - she believed me because he had successfully manipulated her. Then he exploded and I won. What kind of 'empathy' is that? Autistics can do that better than anyone, if they are aware of how everyone sees each other. I think autistics can be metapaths. Sexy new word.

I don't know about empathy... if empathy is feeling as other people feel, I have none of that. I have no idea how anyone feels half the time.

I don't have much sympathy either. I can watch people be hurt, and hurt people myself and not care.

It depends on who the person is. There are some people that I care about. Anyone else though I don't really give a f**k. I don't really know what I am, but it doesn't feel normal. Nothing I can do about it.

Well I'm not a bad liar, other then that I agree with that part of your post though.

Now don't go using that word expecting people to know what you mean . I'd just say they had high social intelligence. Its not that uncommon and its not that autistic (is it anyone?). People analyse social structures when they can stand outside of them. Many autistics don't feel compelled to 'go with the herd', so yes it maybe easier for them to stand back and observe, but then again that ain't true for others. On the other hand, many intelligent NTs are 'metapaths' too, but its perhaps not innate. It comes form experience and intelligence. If you have that, you can see how people see each other, and perhaps use that information to manipulate - either for the common good or for your own selfish means. Its a form of personal politics, outmanoevering others.

Young and pretty doesn't dissappear Fraac, it turns into stuff so much more interesting. Lovely human faces that have shared life, learnt stuff and value different things. Pretty is very dull. Trust me, boys faces get better as they get older if inside they get smarter, lovelier and sexier as people. The good guys want grown-up women and equals, who themselves want grown-up men, so why fret about ageing?

Lying, acting, manipulating, being smart, logical, independent thinking, caring about all people, being at one with humanity, being loving, jealous blah blah blah - none of it means you are autistic or NT. Us or them. It means you are one of the neurodiverse human race, not a monkey. We have 30-100 thousand years of evolutionary biology, environmental, cultural, technological development on top on the monkeys underneath and it make us marvellously complex. Just don't tell me Alice Roberts is a monkey. She's not. Nor tell me that she is AS cos she so smart and lovely. Labels.

Yeah autistics are often bad liars, not always. Fraac says he is a good liar too. I'm sure most people can learn to be good liars, whether autistic or NT. Some are naturals. I'm NT and I was born a natural liar. I was the sweetest looking girl on the planet age 6 and I was smart and kind, and I learnt very quickly lying let me do what I wanted.
I was furiously independent but I didn't want to worry my parents, so I just lied, simply to protect their feelings, whilst living my own life.
When younger I would often tell lies to do good things (e.g I've manipulated couples into being together who hadn't a clue and who so needed each other, evidence by their happiness 10 years later). People believed me generally cos I dont look like I can lie. I didn't do it that often but I'd just make myself believe something as I say its true and everyone believes me.

As an adult I have lied for very bad reasons, because I am selfish, and to get what I want. However, that part of me, my duplicitousness is at odds with a fundmental kindness. So now a little older I never lie to get what I want or to be mean to others. I simply can't do it anymore, I can't sustain a lie, as I feel huge guilt and remorse. My partner knows I can lie, but he also trusts me with his life, and he is right to. If he asks me for the truth about anything I would be 100% compelled to tell him.

Was all of the flaming and people calling each other sociopaths removed?

Lack of empathy is and it's an awful definition for sociopath, IMO.

If they didn't have it they couldn't READ other people and manipulate them so well. This is the opposite of most Aspies.

Sociopaths also lack sympathy to the most extreme degree.

BUT, I do agree that there are some other similarities.

It takes two to lie - Homer Simpson was right. When someone wants to see you in a particular way, like as a cute little girl or a spazzy autistic, and you know that, they've told you exactly how to lie to them to make them happy. I think that's how a lot of NT relationships work, the opening moves are about transmitting how you want to be lied to.



Sociopaths are poor at reading people. They create a new reality and trust that people are living in it, but they have mindblindness for how people feel about each other. They lack imagination for feelings. How they're so successful with certain people is a little mysterious to me, as they can't see more than NTs. They must just want it more.