Accepting Autism is Like a Traffic Jam

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He was at one time a member of Generation Rescue, which spearheaded the movement to eliminate Thimerosal from vaccines.

They believe autism is equal to mercury poisoning, which it's not.

I saw a guy once who had actual mercury poisoning. He wasn't autistic though, and didn't even display any stereotypical autistic behavior.

I have a question. How would someone go about 'suing' the people that vaccinated you, anyway? According to my mother, and my uncle that told me about it later on, I reacted very badly to getting vaccinated for Diptheria Pertussis and Tetnus in 1954. As my uncle put it "we thought we were going to lose you". I remember my swollen shoulder, the black and blue bruising and the red streaks in my upper arm, I remember having a fever and going to the doctor's again and again the next day. Sitting in the car in the sunlight while mom went shopping and putting my face against the cool chrome of the car. I remember that, being very ill, I was about three years old. And I cried and cried.

So. . what has this to do with my AS?

I mean, this is the first time I have heard about this reaction to vaccination and I gather it didn't happen to a lot of kids, but I was like singing words to commercial jingles in my crib and reading before I was two. . and didn't get vaccinated until I was three, I have that on my kindergarten transcript.

So, are they saying I had mercury poisoning/brain damage AND AS?

Merle

Last edited by sinsboldly on 15 Dec 2007, 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, apparently. As I've said, I don't really buy into the thimerosal as a cause of autism... everyone I know and have come across on the spectrum was very clearly born with it, and it does tend to run in families, so that kinda discounts the link from the outset.

I don't quite understand how they think it's the mercury though... I mean, a few of the symptoms are similar to those of autism but they seem like they're pretty clearly seperate conditions for the most part. I do know one guy with mercury poisoning (due to his mother being a dentist dealing with amalgam all the time). He's got learning and developmental disabilities but it's definitely not autism, that's plain for anyone to see.

You've gotta be pretty brave to take on Big Pharma anyway... I mean, really, do they think they have a chance of legally taking on the most powerful industry in the world and winning?!

(I don't like vaccines because of all the things they put in them, which I see as unnecessary and dangerous. Not because of autism.)

That doesn't surprise me. He seems to harbour so much anger and resentment and hurt... I really hope that he finds a way of dealing with that without needing to blame someone or something and just accepts his kid as he is. That much bad feeling isn't good for you, and I doubt it's doing his son any good either. I actually feel really sorry for him.

I'd say that Generation Rexu jumped on the bandwagon after Safe Minds and a couple others had been banging the insane "autism is mercury poisoning" drum for a couple of years solid. Generation Rexu signed up Best to be one of their Rexu Angels, those are volunteers who basically give out medical or quasi-medical advice to "new parents". Each Rexu Angel can say whatever he or she likes, so I understand it.

Anyway, I don't think John is very well known outside of a small group of hard core antivaccing/mercury phobic/biomed parents. But he was going to run for President of the US, I think... he posted something to that effect on the EoHarm group. Then he signed up on the Autism Speaks board as "Abe Lincoln"....
He was so obviously John Best that several people asked him if he was, and he denied it. After being abusive over and over again on that board they kicked him off, then he admitted to being Abe Lincoln and ravage Autism Speaks from his blog... then went back.

It looks exactly like JB Handley has had a few different ID's on the Autism Speaks board, too. Not that he'd admit it.

Anyway, I don't want to get into the whole vaccine thing here, but here's what will hopefully be my only post on the subject. Ultimately, it is selfish and irresponsible not to vaccinate children without very good reason. There are two bloggers on the autism-hub, one of whom has not vaccinated any of his/her kids, the other has a younger child who was not vaccinated up until past the time he/she got an autism diagnosis, and that child might still be unvaccinated. I like both of these bloggers, but unless they have some compelling reason not to vaccinate their kids, they're putting them and others they come in contact with at risk for serious, even deadly diseases.

(Both me and my ASD kid get all the vaccines that are recommended to us. This year we each got the flu vax WITH THIMEROSAL) Last year my kid got the pneumonia vaccine (booster) and the flu shot.

A few years ago I got the MMR, the pneumovax and more recently the TDaP.

The point of vaccinating is not just to protect the one who gets vaccinated but also to make each human body less "friendly" to being a host to a germ that will multiply a quantillion gajillion times and that person can then spread all those germs to others.

Measles is EXTREMELY contagious. Like you can walk past a person in a mall and get measles from them. Or walk into a room that person has been in hours before and stand on the opposite side of the room and still get measles.

Children die from measles.

Children don't die from rubella, but they carry it around like a cold and if a pregnant mom gets exposed her baby can die or be born deaf/blind or deaf or blind or autistic. Rubella is bad news for an embryo. If you don't vaccinate your kid against rubella and he gives it to your pregnant neighbor and that embryo/fetus dies or ends up with a serious disability are you totally free and clear of guilt? If you didn't vax your kid because you didn't feel like it?

A lot of people would say, "too bad for the neighbor's baby" but my kid ain't getting vaxed. That's very selfish.

Polio is ok for some people they get a bad case of diarrhea, but others end up dead or paralyzed for life.

Polio is just a plane ride away from any of us in the developed world, if we are vaccinated we'll be safer.

Flu exposure may cause autism in fetuses. Hmmm.

Diphtheria came back and killed lots people in Russia when their vaccine program tanked when Soviet system crashed.

Tetanus kills, and can crack your vertibrae in the process...

Let's all not vax our dogs for rabies and lets set the clock back a couple hundred years. How about vaxing them for bordatella, it's the dog version of whooping cough, which still kills babies in this country every year, especially in pockets of population that are undervaccinated. I was exposed to whooping cough a couple of years ago because I live in one of those undervaccinated populations, apparently.

There's an outbreak of deadly parvovirus killing dogs in the local animal shelter. I for one am glad my dog was able to be vaccinate for parvo when she was a puppy.

Vaccines are not any where near as dangerous as the wild germs they prepare us for. There's this idiotic notion that all things natural are good so getting the measles naturally is "healthy" (even though it can kill) and that the vaccine is unhealthy, even though it can not kill.

People have the right to refuse vaccines, of course, but some really dumb people do this for all the wrong reasons. That's a very dangerous fact.

For reference, I used to be very much into all things "natural" and I used to believe in some things that I now call "woo". But I never doubted the importance of vaccines, and I always knew that there are risks related to getting vaccinated. I remember being afraid of what the release said about the DTP vax that my kids got, it said there are risks but the risks are higher to the unvaccinated. I was afraid of what could happen to my child from the vaccine, but
I also felt I had an ethical obligation to uphold public health because it's not just about the individual and his or her fears, it's about PUBLIC health and not spreading diseases that can be prevented.

Public health is one of my perseverations, besides the mercury-phobic idiocy of the mercury parents. Autism is my main perseveration, I guess... that and speaking Mandarin and reading/writing Chinese.

There's a time limit, but parents who think their children were damaged by vaccines can file for compensation through the gov't program... forgot it's name... VCIP or something... There are certain outcomes that if a person gets them following a vaccine, even if the vaccine DID NOT CAUSE the outcome, if it's suspected that the vaccine might have caused the outcome the program will pay. They are called "table injuries" because they are on a "table" (list).

So the gov't is offering to pay people for injuries that vaccines did not cause in order to induce people to be more likely to vaccinate. They are also offerign to pay for injuries that vaccines can and do cause. Autism is not one of them.

I did get the rubella vaccine, and still had rubella as a kid... most of my school did, in fact.

Everyone I know who's ever had the flu vaccine contracted flu for the first time in years within hours of receiving it. My friend's mother had severe pleurisy within 24 hours and was in hospital for a week. The only time I've had flu was after taking a pharmaceutical 'anti-flu' drug.

There was a dodgy Meningitis vaccine rolled out in NZ last year. It wasn't tested, only gave 70% efficacy against one particular strain that wasn't the most common by any means, and the so-called 'epidemic' was so much on the wane that rates had dropped 90% in a year and only 1 person had died in the previous 12 months. That vaccine has been linked to the deaths of about 12 kids now, and caused reactions in thousands. The only people to have died from meningitis in the past 2 years had been vaccinated against it.

So they don't always work anyway.


If there's an outbreak of anything, my kids will be kept home so they can't contract or pass on the illness. Simple. I'm not irresponsible or stupid!! And as I said, they'll be given plenty of natural immune-boosters.

I also won't use chemical cleaners (only natural chemicals), I wash my clothes with soap nut tree pods, only eat organic, fresh, local produce, and use natural, organic, synthetic-chemical-free cosmetics and skincare. It'd be a bit hypocritical of me to vaccinate with all that in mind.

Putting the kids in a sterile sealed room would be the only thing entirely effective for the more contagious diseases. Vaccines are not infallible (in the real world, nothing is), but they provide significantly more resistance than no vaccine. I personally am skeptical of flu vaccines, but that doesn't make me reject all vaccines - different vaccines have different effectiveness and different risks - it is something that has to be evaluated on a vaccine-by-vaccine basis. Incidentally, in some cases, even if people do get the disease it is a weaker form of it - until very recently, if you had been vaccinated against rabies and still got rabies, you nevertheless had a chance of survival - until a recent experimental anti-rabies treatment developed in the US, getting rabies if you had not been vaccinated meant certain death. Vaccines also offer the only plausible way of eradicating diseases such as polio.

They won't be put in a sealed room, that'd be silly! But they'll at least be kept out of the way of all the other kids, so you can relax about that one. And fed up on natural immune-boosting anti-viral goodness.

The only cases of people contracting diseases they're immunised against have been extremely nasty cases of it, worse than normal - certainly not weakened versions!! I was off for a week with rubella, and although I felt fine it was a horrendous case... spots galore, fever, etc. I just remember being bored and annoyed as I wasn't allowed near daylight because of the potential damage to my eyes.

You're right in that they need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and there are some worse than others, I definitely agree. But until you find me one that doesn't contain formeldehyde, thimerosal, ethylene glycol, aluminium, aborted fetal cell cultures, chicken cultures, animal cell cultures, or other appropriate gunk, I won't be vaccinating.

I don't actually plan on having kids for a few years yet anyway, so it's not actually an issue I'm facing for a while I hope!! Fingers crossed anyway...

No one has ever said they always work. They are just far less dangerous overall than the wild type germs they are designed against.

The idea of keeping your kids home when they get rubella is fine, but you don't know if they are contagious immediately and the kid could cough on a pregnant woman in the store and end her baby's life, and if YOU happened to be the mom who is carrying a baby then your baby could end up deaf/blind etc because you'd be home with those contagious kids.

Not all moms can keep their kids home when they are sick and no one can cover issues like the mail delivery person comes to your door and drops off a package and picks up the germ and carries to other people. Leaving your kids unvaxed is irresponsible in my opinion, because you can't control where the germs are going to go so easily. And the consequences can be fatal for someone else. It's not like a cold which rarely kills anyone. Rubella is horrifically bad for the unborn, it's like pointing a gun at a fetus or pouring a poison on it. It's very, very bad.

In Canada they have a society for the deaf/blind that started out as a rubella victim society.
http://www.cdbra.ca/show.do?p=rubellaNews
http://www.cdbra.ca/

There are vaccines that are cultured on aborted fetal cell lines, the lines came from two or three aborted fetuses that were aborted like 30 or 40 years ago. The cell lines are "immortal" and so they don't need to keep using new fetuses. The Catholic church has said that it's ok with them for their members to use vaccines grown on these cells but that if other sources are available they are preferable.

Vaccines are not dangerous. The ingredients in them are not dangerous. The amount of aluminum, etc in them is not dangerous. If you want to focus on them to the point where they seem heinous, well then they are "dangerous". Just like tomatoes used to be seen as deadly poison. If people believe something is poison, then for them, it is poison.

The flu vaccine can not cause the flu. It's a dead virus shell that is in the vaccine. It's far more dangerous to get the flu (though not deadly all the time obviously, just deadly some of the time especially to old people, and just might cause autism and/or schizophrenia in the unborn). For me, I don't want to get the flu again, so I'm going to increase the odds of not getting it by getting the vaccine whenever it's available.

If you get pregnant and some unvaxed kid with rubella sneezes on you and your baby is born severely deformed or deaf/blind, is that going to be OK? I don't think so. Anyway, I don't want to fight about it. I'm sure you are a very nice person and I'm glad to "meet" you here.

Are you sure you were out a week with rubella??? I don't think so. I think you had rubeola or measles.

Rubella is sometimes called "german measles"... at least here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubella It's not that noticeable.

It's measles that makes kids really sick (and can kill them) and it's measles where they try to keep the kids in the dark so they don't get eye damage.

The thing about measles is that sometimes it hangs around in the brain and kills the kid like 7 to 10 years later in the most horrifying way. It's rare, but it happens. measles inclusion body encephalitis and subacute sclerosing pan-encephalitis.

Measles is a scary disease. It can wipe out the immune system and let other germs take over. Measles vaccine does not do this at all and prevents most cases of wild-type measles infection.

sigh... no, actually the Mossad did it, with their agent Osama Bin Laden. Last message he had was 'I DID IT..ME ME ME...PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN... or what.

I think that like any other diagnosis or tool, that the 'increase' is just either from people being clued into the symptoms, and knowing what to look for; or when they did it to people who didn't have the symptoms to begin with. The level should taper off as they either perfect the diagnosis, or they come up with another set of symptoms.

If the diagnosis was set in 1999, then Bush was still only Governor of Texas, so he must be a lot more powerful than we knew...

I think the important thing is knowing how to recognize what's going on within you, and how to adapt to it to be more comfortable and successful with everyone around you...but that's me...

LOL
OK, so you are having your old chat room on the new chat room. Enjoy Wrong Planet, you can make a contribution while you are here, Alex can certainly use a little $$ help for the new servers.

Merle

LeKiwi,

The thing about vaccinating that is important is herd immunity. Sure your kids may be safe, but only because the majority of kids are vaccinated. This is why it really is a social responsibility. If everyone were to say lets not vaccinate our children we would be in big trouble. You are right LeKiwi vaccines are not 100% effective for everyone. It is herd immunity that keeps the people safe that ma not have 100% immunity. Why do ranchers vaccinate all of their animals. They do not want to lose there whole herd. I one animal does not gain 100% immunity it is still very safe because the rest of the herd is vaccinated. It is a bit reckless not to vaccinate. Vaccine fears cn cause whole communities not to vaccinate putting them at great risk. A strong immune system will not protect you from these germs and viruses. You must have the antigens to protect you. I just had my dogs vaccinated for everything. It is a statistical fact that dogs and cats love longer lives once vaccinated. Diseases devastate feral cat populations. Autismdiva is right about the things she says. She really does know what she is taking about. There is a very small percentage of people who have adverse reactions to vaccines. For society's sake it is important to take that chance. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. It is a humble responsibility like a fireman running into a burning building to save a family, or a soldier risking his life to protect the lives of many. I know to each parent their child means more than anything but most children have a parent that loves them, and we all must think of them too. I have a 8 month old baby. He has some developmental delays already. I will vaccinate him for his sake, and for the sake of society as a whole.

If you lived in Australia, you would have no such choice. If you don't have teaching qualifications you can't homeschool.

And if there was an outbreak of something, keeping them home would actually make matters worse - because you are outside the control area. Those outside the control area become a public health risk - when you take into account that you can't keep kids indoors for an extended period of time (meaning days - not hours). It's called quarantine. Think you can handle that? I have doubts.

Diva, did you already know about that claim with that detail? Or did you get it from Whistleblower on Best's blog? I've been trying to look for more detail but no result yet (through the GPO access site and the Vaccine Court site).

Ok, one by one...

Autism Diva - Whilst I appreciate what you're saying, everyone I know who had the flu vaccine has been sick with the flu for the first time in years immediately after having it. I hear this time and time again from people all over the world. There is no way I would have that thing. End of.
I'm also not catholic (I'm not part of any organised religion) so I don't particularly care if they've said it's fine or not re. the fetal cells. I'm also aware of where they came from etc. I just don't feel that it's particularly safe and I don't want that stuff in my kids arms - the ethics are a little warying but I don't really feel they're too big a deal, as as you said, it was a few lines from years ago.
And I don't consider any amount of aluminium to be safe. I won't use aluminium cookware or any household products that contain it, so why would I inject it into my kids?
Also, yes I'm sure I was out for a week with Rubella/German Measles. There was an outbreak at my school - pretty much everyone had it. I had a slight fever, headache, and was covered head-to-toe in a rash of very small spots - for the most part I felt fine though, hence the boredom. My Grandma is a nurse and insisted on keeping me in the dark, as with a lot of viruses exposure to light can cause eye damage. My eyes are sensitive to light anyway, and I wear glasses for astigmatism, so she wanted to keep me in the dark for their safety.
I've never had rubeola or measles.

I don't believe in vaccination, and there are flaws in the herd immunity argument, and I'm not going to put that gunk into my children. End of. Most of these diseases were on the decrease rapidly BEFORE the vaccines were introduced anyway. Keep your immune system strong naturally, and be sensible about things, and you'll be fine. I'm not vaccinating my kids 'for the good of society' - as far as I'm concerned, the more people who stand up to Big Pharma and their constant campaigns of fear the better.

As for Australia - I have close friends there who haven't vaccinated. They got exemptions. There are ways around it, the govt just aren't too keen to advertise it as the drug companies won't make revenue from those who don't do it. You've seen what the Howard govt were like!! Legally they cannot make you do it - they can make it extremely difficult not to, but if you know the ins and outs and the process of exemption then it's ok. As for homeschooling - simple, I'd get a teaching qualification, and in the meantime let someone else homeschool them.
All I can say though is just as well I plan on living in New Zealand eh?


Vaccination campaigns are based on fear, and I won't have anything to do with that.

Oh, and autism diva - 'ello!! I've heard lovely things about you. Regardless of our views on vaccinating I'm sure we'll get on just fine.