Europe meet-up. Would you be interested?

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That is what it says, actually, oddly enough, which is why I reacted the way I did.

Reread her post, without making any assumptions about the numbers involved.



I reacted to precisely to what she actually said; in particular "We do not have physical space ... ... ... ". She could not have been clearer, especially as she goes on to refer us to a "venues for hire" list.

I think the most upsetting element was that apparently, ( according to her statement; reread it ! ), we would take up less space if we weren't there "solely" to see other "Wrong Planet members". And yet I imagine that many other people go to Autscape principally, if perhaps not solely, to meet others they know, ( online or in RL ).

But, " in fact", whatever we were going for, the Secretary of the Autscape Management Committee said that Autscape does not have the space for both WP and other members.

And the biggest source of confusion was her, ( in her official status as Autscape secretary ), total imprecision about numbers. "Large", ( groups, numbers, etc ). If she had clearly stated how many would be too many for Autscape to handle, half of the misunderstanding would never have happened.

But it is interesting that such an important statement should have been so vague and so disastrous, ( like a sharp slap in the face in the middle of our happy anticipations of seeing a few other WP members at something that sounded as brilliant as Autscape ), because the mistake is the same one as Autscape's use of the word "limited" in its webpage descriptions of accommodation.

A "limited number of single rooms", a "limited number of ensuites", etc, as if venues normally provide unlimited numbers of such things. Why can't your webpage give an approximate number, "about/around x " etc?

What she actually said was like a bucket of icy cold water. Only ManErg, ( working full time as he does he probably has more exposure to this sort of language use from people in positions of authority ), seems to have developed the thick skin and/or "special interpretation" skills necessary to protect himself, but I haven't been working outside the house for ten years and have begun taking people at their word again.

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So far everybody who has posted, exccept a few enthusiasts about Sweden, and the four or five who were interested in Autscape, ( London ), have talked about different places.

I get the impression that we would have to agree on what kind of gathering we want before can go any further. As you say, a choice between

1)
a) a big or
b) small gathering, ... ... in a relatively mundane if pleasant place which has however plenty of things to do, of a discussions/workshops nature ( eg; Autscape or other retreat/activity centre ).

2)
a) a big or
b) small gathering, ... ... somewhere exciting/interesting with lots of things to visit, probably touristy, ( eg; a big city/town or particularly interesting wild/nature region )

Somewhere with almost nothing to do is probably a bad idea; too much pressure on people to get on/stay together, simply for lack of other things to do.

I wasn't planning on taking a holiday this year, ( and if I had been it would have been with my son and his father ), so the main interest of a WP meet to me is the WP members. I don't want to spend a lot of money to be somewhere in particular, except something like Autscape which would provide some intellectual stimulation aswell as lots of other AS to meet/connect with in AS-friendly surroundings.

I totally sympathise with the many people who have posted on here, and on other threads about meet-ups in the past, who say they would not go further than the nearest big capital/county city. If you all came to Montelimar, for instance, I could get the bus from our small village to join you each day, at any time of year. And it would be great.

For a WP meet to interest me enough to make a day's journey or more, and pay for a room, it would have to be for at least 20 people, and in August or at Easter/Xmas, and those are pretty much my sole
conditions. That is to say the size of the gathering, ( and the date, unless it was close by in which case could go anytime ), is much more important to me than its location.

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See my post at bottom of page 15 for the full quote, ( and my analysis of it ).


And the experience was pretty painful, so I would appreciate some acknowledgement that she did in fact say that Autscape does not have the space for both WP and other members, etc, and that I was not imagining/exaggerating anything, simply expressing my AS in taking her statement literally and in understanding it precisely as phrased.

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Yes, thats clearly defined the choices I can see. I'd be happy with either, however number 2b) strikes me as far, far easier to organise. I totally agree with whoever mentioned earlier that previous ideas have fizzled out through being over ambitious. As we may get more experienced at this, the event could grow organically over time.

Organising a type 1) event over the internet would be very frustrating, I believe the organisers would all have to get together in a room in real life at some point.

Having said that, I also think any event of this nature will struggle if the key decisions are done by democracy Someobody will *always* disagree with somebody elses idea. The best way is for is for someone to say "There will be a gathering here, on this day" and that's that. Don't get me wrong, that still leaves a lot of room for shared decision making, but if you open a thread and ask "When and where should we meet?", you will never get the same answer twice - this thread is beginning to prove this! Another problem is that I'm really uncomfortable making decisions for other people and, given that I see many NT's who *love* inflicting their decisions on other people, I'm assuming this is a general Aspie thing. WP would probably never have started if Alex had consulted the wider AS community first rather than just getting on with it himself! Can you imagine 2 aspie techies ever agreeing on the same forum software



Autscape could still be a possibilty for a type 1) event.


I can see that point of view, however, I personally find the idea of a once a year, special meet up of people who are spread all over Europe & even further, in a location I'ver never been to before, far more exciting!



Yes, that would be great - I'd make sure I'd got some serious dental insurance cover before venturing near "the world capital of Nougat" though.



Well, there's the problem. There's always going to be somebody else who insists it's no more than 10 people, in June and within ten miles of a town or city beginning with the letter J The trouble is canvassing opinion, maybe we could close this thread and start another that has a list of the specific possibilities people have mentioned and then the dates. eg:

1) Keele Univ
2) Slovenia
3) Sweden
4) The Rhine
5) Austrian Alps
6) A rural retreat in the UK
etc

And a preference for month April/May/June etc etc

Note that this would just be canvassing opionion, not a vote I'm just getting a little worried that while this particular thread has run out of steam, the general idea of a Euro meetup is still a good one.

I agree. But I don't think there is much point in a thread proposing/listing venues which would be suitable for different types of event. For instance Keele University would probably be great for a large meet-up, ( ideally 30 - 40, or more ), but not for a small one, the same for a rural retreat.

So if want to concentrate on a small gathering for this year then need to only list the places that would be worth being at/travelling to for a few people, ( not Birmingham for example, which someone suggested on here? Or would it in fact qualify, being big and full of museums/cinemas/restaurants/galleries, etc? ).

And, as importantly, request that everyone who does vote for somewhere states clearly in the thread what place they voted for and which dates would suit them, ( with a simple choice for the moment, as you say, of month/season ), and whether has to be a weekend or not. Budget would have to come later.

So, ... new thread? Or carry this one on for a while to discuss exactly which places should be in a new poll?

Looking over the thread again realise that if include all the places people mentioned which would offer interesting things to see/do for a small group of people it will be quite a big poll. Perhaps group some places as "types", like Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham.

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Last edited by ouinon on 12 Feb 2009, 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Possible list of options, ( to be discussed ) for a new poll to ask how many people would go where, ( remembering to stress that would be for a few/couple of days with perhaps/probably only a few WP'ers ):

Manchester, Birmingham or Liverpool
London
Paris
Holland
Brittany or other attractive area/town in N.W. France
Berlin or other interesting N. German town/city
Avignon, Nimes, Arles, Montelimar, or other beautiful town/city in S. France
S. Germany; The Black Forest and Rhineland
The Alps ( Austrian, Swiss, Italian, German, or French )
Scandinavia; Stockholm, Sweden, etc
Town/city in Italy, Spain, Portugal, or other S. European country
Eastern Europe; a town/city in Slovenia or other E. European country

Do we need to regroup, redefine, add, or subtract anything to make that a useful, comprehensive, and still clear, range of options?
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Last edited by ouinon on 12 Feb 2009, 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

I vote we scrap Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham, because they are too "normal" for many in the UK, and are relatively easily accesssible for many people there on a more humdrum/day-visit basis. Is that reasonable?

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If people were ok with that the poll options list would look like this:

London

Paris

Holland

Brittany or other attractive area/town in N.W. France

Berlin or other interesting N. German town/city

Avignon, Nimes, Arles, Montelimar, or other beautiful town/city in S. France

S. Germany; The Black Forest and Rhineland

The Alps ( Austrian, Swiss, Italian, German, or French )

Scandinavia; Stockholm, Sweden, etc

Town/city in Italy, Spain, Portugal, or other S. European country

Eastern Europe; a town/city in Slovenia or other E. European country

Anything else we should scrap, add, clarify, before posting a new thread with this poll ? Feel free to suggest "decorative detail" for each option, either to conjure up a place more vividly, or to stress something about its qualities.

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We can use this one for a while to collate the suggestions. I'm imagining ultimately a grid with places mapped against time, then we can focus totally on the best 2 or 3 options. That's if more than 2 people vote... I notice you started a poll on country and there has been only 4 people voting, yet 20+ have expressed an interest here

However, there's a lot me we can state, I think the more definite we can be, the better. Here's my first stake in the ground (in "manager-speak"):

On the actual venue, we have a consensus on a B&B/Inn/Small Hotel with an outdoors area large enough for us. Individuals can decide whether they want a private room, or share, to reduce cost, keep warm, whatever Although a group rate may be negotiated, individual will be responsible to pay for their accomodation, including any up-front deposit. En-suite preferred, but not a deal-breaker.

Venue must be accessable via public transport, and there must be places to visit nearby also easily accessable via walking or public transport. Within, say, 50km of an airport (or less if you think that's too far)

The meet up will be 4 days - Friday to Monday, although of course individuals could arrange shorter or longer if they wish

I had listed locations, but you beat me to it That's a good list, once we have the basic region established we could home in on suitable towns and accomodation.

Can you select several options in a poll? It would be limiting just having to select one. Also can you have a section with the months too? For the time period, we can start at end of April (Easter) through to September, again allowing multiple selection of months that are preferred.

sorry, Ive not been back quicker

I deleted the thread after the second pm as I did not want to get in trouble as AV is quite strict and I did not want trouble from the person who sent the pm. The person who sent did so on behalf of another member, I dont know if she is on the autscape comitee but she is very difficult and may cause trouble, I expect it was her who informed mouse of this thread.

I am very put off autscape now as there is no way I would cope for several days in a place that was so difficult/rude.

Perhaps take Spain & Portugal out for now as nobody really seemd to go for them, possibly too non-central. I also agree with taking the UK urban sprawls out!

As SE.France and S.Germany are covered elsewhere (more or less) , I'd reduce The Alps to specifically Austrian Alps and have a separate vote for "Beautiful North Italian town", replacing the "Spain/Portugal/Italy S. Europe" entry.

I think we should rent a cottage in france near Ouinon , then she can sleep in her own home and vist us or stay over and we get a nice holiday in france. France is easy for people in the UK as we can just get the train.

The first thing to determine is the date. Once the date is set, we will know how many Brits are attending, and that will determine if we have to do it in Britain. Unless there's a majority of Brits, the logical thing is to choose a central location in a cheap country, that's why I suggested Slovania.

We should start a new thread intended for the 20- 30 people who said they'd come / probably come, and ask their preferred dates. Then we set the date according to the preferences of the majority. And last, we choose a venue that is centric to those who accept the set date.

Good idea.


You have a consensus on that, of us two definitely, but I think it also covers most of what others mentioned in the thread previously, ( including Greentea not wanting a private house ), and still could allow for camping close by for people who prefer, if it is in a smallish town/near countryside.


Some people specifically asked for a weekend, and if it weren't in August or at Easter, I would have to agree with that.


I don't think so, but seem to remember once seeing a special poll on here which allowed for it; perhaps need to pm Lau or Alex about that.


Not sure I understand what you mean by that. I imagined people initially stating a preferred month/season in a post when they vote in this poll, to be followed by date-fixing on an entirely separate/fresh poll.

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I feel similarly, mainly because it completely frazzled me emotionally and killed my new born enthusiasm stone dead.

I'd like that very much, but Greentea won't go to a private house, so it would have a B&B or small hotel in S. France if want to include her.

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Revised version of list taking into account ManErg's suggestions:

London

Paris

Holland

Brittany or other attractive area/town in N.W. France

Berlin or other interesting N. German town/city

Avignon, Nimes, Arles, Montelimar, or other beautiful town/city in S. France

S. Germany; The Black Forest and Rhineland

Austrian Alps

Scandinavia; Stockholm, Sweden, etc

Beautiful N. Italian town

Eastern Europe; a town/city in Slovenia or other E. European country

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