The future of Autisim!

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You guys are taking this ALL waaaaaay too personally and AIME your stories RE the hardships of getting SSDI due to people lacking resources is completely true and I totally "feel" and see it. BUT that is sort of my point. I would have an easier time with a lot of resources than people who actually need it. And I too have known a few cheaters. (I think SSDI may be easier btw) My only point here is that there are ways to figure out ANY system. This entire side tangent from my flippent comment really has no worth or meirt becuase it is a hypothetical situation based upon society in our culture changing so drastically that it would cause people who are able to work and make great money to wish to become impoverished because the benefits of working are now outweighed by taxation or otherwise lack of return on investment.


As we all agree, it isn't really a "wonderfully" easy way of living in comparison to the many other choices out there today. (I am so NOT interested in living like this, that I cover myself with a supplimental long-term disability just in case something really did happen) And finally if the society switched to this different way of being in my hypothetical world, we could probably assume the systems would be somewhat different as well so not a one of us can really say one way or the other. IOW: We'll never know and it really doesn't matter in the context of the overall thread that was going on before everyone took off on this one. This board is sooo funny sometimes.

This thread cuts close to the bone because it is so deeply tied to self identity. Add that to the fact that ASD-ers by definition have the social skills of a soap dish and it's no surprise we misinterpret.

So I don't take it too personally even if sometimes I'm wondering WTF?

And we also sometimes say things with no intention, no idea of how hurtful or inappropriate they are, or with little conscious consideration of the audience we are talking to.

This website has enlightened me of the many times I did this in my life, with no clue that I was doing it. I thought I had lived long enough to already have figured it out, but I was wrong.

Early front-runner for post of the year.

I did it earlier today. Drama ensued.

I worked with a young lady that had Aspergers. She ran a section of a recreation program. At the time I was an Athletic Director at a Military base. I was in my office with the a newly selected fitness director.

She came into the office and said matter of factly, you are the new fitness director OMG you are so small. Made me cringe in embarassment of all the times in my life, I had stated similiar little tidbits of information, not understanding there possible impact.

Yeah, the only thing that has made it easier for me to not do this as much is that I have had it done to me often enough to not want to pass the buck. I still say a lot of things I don't realize are hurtful or offensive, though - today I managed to hit one of my niece's buttons about her comfort with being in the kitchen with other people. I have issues with being in the kitchen with other people and mildly teased her for coming in whenever I was there, and it apparently really hurt her feelings.

At one point in time I was comfortable being around almost anyone. My sister who has aspegers has shown much discomfort in social situations most of her life. I never understood it and often kidded her about it, and some took it as a sign she just didn't want to be around someone. When it finally happened to me I understood so much better.

Thinking to myself though, from one that has experienced both extremes, how can any psychiatrist, member of a family, friend, acquaintance, or stranger possibly understand what it is like unless they experience the sensory issues that are involved.

Same for Fibromyalgia. My wife has had it as long as she can remember, whereas I never experienced pain until age 45. There was no possible way I could understand her pain, until I experienced it.

Most people told her it was all in her mind and I was of that opinion too, until I found out for myself what it really was. I thought, I was dying at first. How sad it must be to know no other experience in life.

Trying to explain how things really work != taking things way too personally.

Well, the idea that most people on any sort of gov't benefits are lazy cheats/fakers/liars is rampant in the USA. I'd say it's the most common view. And, I don't think that is an accident. It's like the "welfare queen" concept of the 80's. The idea was implanted in the public's consciousness, and became a widely-believed (brilliant marketing idea). But, (supposedly), when some reporters went looking for people who fit that description, they couldn't find any.

I heard recently that in some state they are now drug-testing people who are using unemployment insurance. I've been in the world long enough to know that that has nothing to do with drugs. It has to do with tainting a group of people as immoral, stupid/thoughtless, "other," low-class, and just "bad." And all of translates into "not like me" for everyone else. It's the same as de-lousing people in public, not because they need it, but because it looks so bad that it will cause other people to lose their identification with that person, which makes it much easier to get away with treating them badly.

So, I don't think these benign or trivial ideas -- they do matter, a lot. (And there are people in politics pushing certain characterizations very hard, very deliberately, for exactly that reason.)

As far as taxes, AFAIK, the USA did not experience a "brain drain" when the tax rate on the wealthy was 90%. And anyone who thinks their job is too technical or too hard to be outsourced may be in for a surprise in the future. (I hear a lot of programmers are complaining bitterly about H1-B's.) It's too bad that so many bright people buy into the globalism/neo-liberal-economics/John-Galt stuff.

And, as far as having money, yes that does help. I spent my last $2000 on tests, and if I hadn't been able to, I'm sure my application wouldn't have gone through on the first try. And re: SSDI, yes, I had a short interview with an insulting SS shrink, but didn't have to do the infamous SSI interview that Anbuend described (which is a bit odd as I ended up qualifying for SSI, also). So, yeah, the worse you need help (don't have money) the harder & more degrading it is to get help.

I am not saying that your statement is NOT true, but you are projecting all of those feelings on me from one statement about a hypothetical situation. That is where I called foul. My statement is an explaination RE why socialism will NOT work from my view. Socialism works GREAT for those who need but those who can provide are given very little incentive to excel and eventually it causes complete apathy at it worst which is where I throw in the towel. I NEVER inferred anything RE people who get services or made any sort of remark that justified the reams and reams of subsequent posts to that end. You guys just sort of took off on it. Honestly, I am confused and humoured as I see that happening on this board a lot.

And you and I are saying the exact same thing RE the system. BECAUSE I have resources, I could pay off doctors, get a thousand tests, wait out the wait times, navigate around better, etc. I know I could figure out to make it happen. Sad as it is...

The reason that some, who are disabled take offense to this statement, hypothetical or not, is that you are suggesting it is easier to live disabled than it is to work, in a condescending manner.

I worked my tail off from the time I was 16 until 47, and beyond my physical ability to cope with disability. I am now disabled, and am financially independent with or without SSDI, because I planned for the future while working.

I would give away that financial independence, SSDI, and Civil Service Disability in a heartbeat to have my abilities back that once allowed me to be engaged in life in a fulfilling manner. I would love to have the ability to work in any minimium wage job again, and start from scratch, rather than be disabled.

I was extremely healthy, and in the top ten percent of Military Fitness before my disability hit. I would have never been able to get SSDI based on my diagnosis of PDD NOS, because of my work experience.

In fact, with an Auto Immune Disorder, Sjorgren's Syndrome attacking my eyes that kept me in a dark room for eight months, Dysautonomia, Fibromyalgia and a statement from an opthamologist, Rheumatologist, and General Practioner that stated I was permanently disabled; along with pages of medical records, the Civil Service system did not accept any of those physical conditions as disabling enough to qualify for disability retirement.

I also had a statement from a psychiatrist that I was permanently disabled from Severe Anxiety, PDD NOS, along with the physical disabilities already mentioned. That was also not enough.

The only qualifying factor was a hospital stay after 40 days of insomnia, where I could barely move or function and was diagnosed with depression and assessed very low on the GAF scale.

I was qualified with SSDI on the first try with no lawyer. But, there was one hundred pages of documentation.

Judging from your posts, if you ever do have the misfortune of disability that prevents you from engaging in work or activities that might be fulfilling at home, I think you might understand how offensive this statement can be. Especially in a forum where it is likely that some are permanently disabled and would rather be working if they had a choice.

Permanent disability can hit anyone at anytime in their life, regardless of any pre-existing condition. The time it is the saddest is when one experiences it for themselves or loved ones.

And, I realize you meant no harm with the statement ; obviously an achiever like you would never game the system; just trying to illustrate where the foul ball went from one that is not enjoying their disability. And by the way my wife is disabled, and I had a child born disabled, so I speak for them also.

And back to topic:

I agree with your view that is pro-autism and pro-research. I see the benefit of both.

And back away from topic; sort of:

But, in my opinion for one that understands the need for research for Autism, the need for a Social Safety Net is just as important for those that experience effects from Autism that are permanently disabling, in youth or after middle age.

If we have to raise taxes to continue the social safety net and corporations leave; it will be more a result of frivolous spending by government in the last ten years that has gotten us to the point we are now, and necessitated such an increase in taxes.

If we don't fix the general problem now, our country faces possible sudden collapse, not unlike the way disability, often strikes.

From what I see in politics; it is not likely the problem will be fixed any time soon. Politics and human nature have been one of my special interests my entire life.

At this point I give the US even odds of economic failure in the next 20 years. A huge disaster or terrorist attack and all bets are off.

Sorry, I couldn't help it. It is one of the last special interests, that I am able to participate in.

Okay I think I see what went wrong. You guys are reading that this statement applies to today whereas I am saying it in my hypothetic situation. In my hypothetical story, socialism reaches the point where those collecting SSI and I make close to the same salary given the socialistic benefits such as free college (which I will not have time for since I work) and medical, etc. IN THAT SCENARIO it is far easier to not work than to work. I NEVER intended it to mean that it is easier today or in today's society.

Thanks for the explanation of the ensuing tangents. I LOVE this board for how people give me the benefit of the doubt in these types of boo-boos. Back later...

And just for further clarification here, I think you are stating it would be far easier to collect SSI if one who was not truly permanently disabled, was able to game the system, in this hypothetical situation.

Not many people would trade permanently disabled for able bodied, regardless of benefits. Health is priceless.

I'm pretty sure this is what you are intending to say here. But since you are not literally saying it, I thought you might want to clarify it, to avoid any further tangents, for those of us here that are likely to literally interpret things.

Then maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean:

If you mean that having money makes the process easier, then ok.

OTOH, if you are saying that having money makes it easy -- so easy that a person could get it even if they didn't legitimately need it, then I don't agree. Short of being blind or having less than 6 months to live, and the system is set up to be difficult. You can improve your odds with money, but only within limits. (But maybe you had more-clever-than-usual plan in mind, that most people wouldn't think of?)

It's just that suggesting that there is an easy way to game the system happens constantly, and it lumps people with legitimate need together with cheats & liars. And that seems insulting. Maybe you didn't mean that, but I see people saying that (and I think they mean it) about disability payments all over the place, constantly.

(And now, I have to go back to laying down, because I forgot to consume my 2g of NaCl in tomato juice last night and so can't sit up at the computer for more than an 30 minutes without getting light-headed (and don't want to take any more midodrine today).)

It has been brought up before, but the welfare state and Market Captalism works pretty well in Denmark. Taxes are high and pay is relatively egalitarian as compared to the US.

They do still have problems, but their economic system works better than most in the world. It would never work here, though, our society is not homogenous enough and too large for this kind of cooperation.

If someone there loses their job they continue to receive full social benefits, with or without disability.

I think AIME's statement is very relevant to the perception of disability and benefits here in the US. Given his input I have a suggestion for Kfisherx, alternate to my request to clarify that in her hypothetical situation she is suggesting living off of SSI would be an easier way to live, if someone was able to game the system.

Perhaps in Kfisherx' hypothetical situation with a much larger welfare state, disability might not be a requirement to receive social benefits when one is unemployed, similiar to what they do in Denmark.

Given an extreme example like this, I could see additional companies moving from here to gain leverage in other countries. We would probably be talking about an average 50% tax rate rather than the approximate 10% average tax rate we have in the US today. It is also doubtfall that the bottom fifty percent would pay little to no tax.

I still think that those that could work though, would work for the most part, if jobs were available, and education was provided for skills that matched the jobs.

If healthcare reform stands the way it is that is likely the last social program expansion we will see in our lifetime. And, in my opinion it will be of great benefit to those that have Autism.