The NT Has No Clothes

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I think it should be noted that everyone's experience is different and autism is a spectrum. It's great that people with autism often function normally, but this is not the case for all. Autism can be severe enough to prevent normal functioning in society. I have found it to be a bit of a hurdle to reaching my goals.

Yes, yes, yes!! !! !
And I can't wait till the kids are asleep so i can read more of the fascinating answers in this thread.

This is EXACTLY how it appears to me, strikingly so.
I would even go so far as to say, if more and more people are now being born autistic, yes there are obviously many valid reasons, and yes of course it is also a question of diagnosis, but (you may think I'm crazy) my gut tells me that there's one reason that trumps them all.

Isn't it true that we now, as never before, DESPERATELY NEED people in the world who:
a)cannot pretend
b)do not conform
c)feel suffering, misery and 'wrongness' in their environment, as though it were not separate from themselves (which actually latest discoveries in science begin to show us that it is not, much as we have sought to believe so
d)are capable of incredible kindness and empathy, even towards non-humans
e) are possessed of incredible intelligence, insight, creativity and originality in their areas of interest.
f) cannot continue with 'business as usual' - being too perceptive and sensitive

Maybe one day there will be more of us than neurotypicals. Then we can start to take part in the nature of society and make it better for everyone.

That's my whole point. Pieplup seems to be ignoring the existence of the more functional end of that spectrum.

Yes, I agree AJ. Pieplup you are ignoring the ability to change over time. Not to no longer be autistic (this is impossible,) but everyone changes and learns. People can learn to manage their symptoms in the same way.

I am curious about whether you recognize that you are trying to have a discussion with a thirteen-year-old (assuming our ages aren't displaying incorrectly again).

I did not, and now I feel bad.

I believe you are such a person. From the way you speak about your son, and in general, it's clear you think for yourself and work hard to understand others. You also strike me as the type of person who tries to right the wrongs when possible, rather than standing by. I don't think all these qualities require a disorder. They require a unique person with heartfelt things to say.

You're ignoring, that autistic people despite functioning level can not fully function in society. There's a difference between being disfunctional because of impairments and because of what I see in society. It frightens me. You're misinterpreting my words. Then putting me in an antagonistic light. Which not only am I disappointed by. Though it also shows how you think this arguement is over when you ignoring my claim. Next you saying I'm ignoring, the Higher functioning side of the spectrum. You simply don't understand what I'm saying. Or choosing to ignore, it.

[color=#00b2ff] No, I'm simply saying they can't function in the same way as others neurotypicals can. I'm not denying anything at all. You, Don't understand what a Theory is to you. It's something that is not proven. I'm simply expressing what, I think about society which is simply, what this thread is for. Your ignoring that, too. My failings your talking about are not very existent since, I'm underage in my country. So there is nothing to own up to. I never stated it was fact. As it being a theory you're welcome to disagree with it. As it was made by a flawed being. It's imperfect. Mocking it's imperfections, is hypocritical of you sense, I guarantee you, I can find something to do the same to. Of, course it is impolite to ridicule someone before they respond. [/color]

Last edited by Pieplup on 30 Oct 2016, 2:05 pm, edited 6 times in total.

No, I'm not fore, You can never change from being autistic. You always are. Even if you learn to mask perfectly eventually that mask will break. Rather the culprit is burnout or yourself. If you stop being autistic one could argue you weren't autistic to begin with. My point is You will always come back to being atypical.

You've got a lot to learn about life, kid.

Never said I didn't.

Thank you! And yes to Androbot too, yes wouldn't such a world be wonderful?
Well, I don't really see autism as a disorder, though of course I recognise what immense suffering people who have it can go through in life, I can see why it is seen as such. Instead I see society as disordered, I've done so much reading and research - also we have this sensitivity in our family. My uncle died in an institution at 21, i never knew him, but he was autistic and my grandmother wrote a heartbreaking memoir. What they went through. I have a photo of him and my granny on our kitchen wall, such a beautiful boy (like mine)

And my son, yes. I am NT myself (which is partly why I was so bemused to see the direction this thread then took ), but I know I have many of those autistic qualities.

People are so hurt - all of us! We need to hold each other, NT, autistic - whatever. We just need to be kind, and truthful.. and for sure something needs to change round here, people need to discover how to be happy.

Have you guys read any Charles Eisenstein? I find his books combine brilliance with kindness, and may even convince you the world CAN change http://charleseisenstein.net/

Hi Katy_Rome,

I briefly checked out Charles Eisenstein's website. I think I will find his books inspiring, so I'm glad you mentioned him.

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle. That's so sad.

Society is disordered, definitely. As for disorders that individuals have, well, there are definitely people whose "disorders" would magically disappear if their society were different. To me, the word "disorder" is only useful if its deficits outweigh its strengths. In this context, the umbrella of autism, with all of its traits and clusters of traits, actually contains gifts, disorders, abilities, disabilities, ETC., depending on how each person lives their life. On the one hand, clinicians diagnose when someone has an impairment of some sort. On the other hand, they say that all people ever diagnosed with autism have a lifelong disorder. I find it all very confusing, so I wonder why they don't just deal with dysfunctional traits as individual disorders, because that would be more clear cut and based on the person's current experience and behavior. Finally, if you can imagine a functional society in which someone with a "disorder" would not be impaired, then is it really a disorder of the individual?

Yes, indeed.. very well put. I must say I share your thoughts very much, on this. It is impossible to know where the disorder of the individual ends and where the disorder or society starts. Maybe they are inseparable?

But a society where any kind of difference is accepted with love and understanding.. no, MORE than that, where difference is not even considered as different, because we're all unique and have our roles (what we're good at and love best) in our community.