The site where they BASH Aspie husband and wives. :O

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I was puzzled at first by this as well.
I'm going to guess that the important point is what exactly that routine is based on.
For example, if she has a routine of needing to hug everyone in the room when she comes in, then that probably would make no sense to her AS partner.
If it was based on something more concrete like lining her shoes up in some useful way, then I'm sure he would deal with that well.

So, I'm guessing her routines may be based on some obscure social expectations.

You may be right. I have noticed NTs have a routine for stuff like greetings and small talk and they take offense if someone doesn't comply to it. I remember talking to my mother about how people make a fuss over something unusual such as the time at our family reunion in 2002, the National Park in South Dakota had banished campfires due to drought, so we used a lantern and had it in the middle where we sat and stared at it and visited and some people walking by made a comment about the lantern and we said it was our campfire and they made a fuss about it. It did give us attention and we would tell them what was going on. My mom said about that that some people don't like change so they may criticize it or think they're "ret*d." Could that e why some people have a hard time accepting people with disabilities? It's a change and some don't like changes.

Olympiadis, your post also confirms my theories.

I'm not "better" than my spouse, but he treats me badly. I do believe in equality within partnerships. But that's not what I have.

And guilt can spring from failing to live to one's own standards. I have a boy being raised in a household where his father treats his mother very badly. This is the standard of intimate relationship that he sees everyday. I don't think that's a good place to raise a child, my child. I feel guilt that I haven't left.

My dad has always treated my mum horribly, and she still cries about it today. It had an enormously negative effect on me.

My dad doesn't have AS, but it is suspected that he has something like ADHD. I consider that irrelevant, because I have directly observed that it is his personality that causes his negligence; it's not that his brain is wired a certain way, he's just a volatile human being by nature. Neither AS nor ADHD are a per-requisite for an individual to treat someone the way my dad does.

I have always wished that I could say something like 'one day I want to be just like my father' or 'if I was half as decent as my father, I will die happy', but I can't. He's toxic.

I was in a relationship with a guy for a month after knowing him for two months and I was unhappy in it and didn't like how he treated me. Two years later I was reading an article in the Seventeen magazine about relationship abuse and my ex ticked about three of the boxes and I was in denial. My mom had told me before she was worried I was being abused and I assured her there was no abuse. In my mind abuse meant getting slapped and beaten, stuff thrown at, slammed into walls and getting bruises and blood. This is the thought most people have when they think of abuse so lot of women don't even know they are in a abusive relationship or marriage, they just know they are in a bad one and their partner is mean but they don't know it's abuse because there is no hitting or being slammed or getting marks and bruises and no beatings. I kept thinking to myself what my ex did was different because "he had AS so he was just being honest with his thoughts" "He didn't understand" "he had PTSD" "he was just worried what my parents would think of him" but when I would read about relationship abuse, it would say partners tend to make excuses and justify the abuse for their abuser. I came to realize there is no excuse and abuse is abuse and there is no exception. I was in a emotionally abusive relationship and I then read about emotional manipulation and realized that is what my ex probably did and then I figure out this year he made fun of me and I didn't pick up on it but I can look back at the things he would say and the tone he said it in and realize he was making fun of me and did it in front of his child and why he would tell his kid everything I said and did like "I told Beth about hot dog and bun and she thought it meant hot dog an bun and didn't know it meant sex" and "I told Beth that people made Shasta pop from Shasta lake and she believed it" and I didn't know this was humiliation he was doing. I have been upset at myself for letting this all happen but I know logically it was not my fault and I trusted him and he was my boyfriend so I trusted him so how was I to know he was making fun of me and trying to humiliate me? I remember it was somehow his kid's business to know what me and his dad were talking about and he let him be nosy and told him everything between us. It was like I couldn't even have my own privacy. My parents never let me eavesdrop on them or tell us what they were talking about if I asked. I sometimes talk to my husband about this to get it out of my system and he always tells me he was a bad person and not a nice guy so that is why I am not with him anymore an it's good I am not still with him. He was the one who told me he was making fun of me because of the way it sounds, his tone of voice for one. But in the women's discussion there is a thread about domestic violence and someone posted a checklist of relationship abuse and my ex ticked very few of the boxes so it makes what I went through nothing compared to what other women go through. I would just say I was lucky it wasn't any worse and I left because the longer you stay the harder it gets to leave. I am just glad I am with a better guy now and who is understanding and very sensitive to feelings.

That's what I'm wondering too.

Thanks, Dianthus. I do see where certain conditions might include an unusual amount of behavior others find troubling, and people are entitled to have different opinions, but it's hard to imagine a forum springing up for people victimized because their spouse has PTSD, as if the spouses PTSD explained explosive behavior, even though maybe violence might be more common in people with PTSD.

So I am looking to understand the connection between ASD and intimidation some people are making. Are they stuck and looking to blame something that's not them and not their partner and nothing changes? In which case I would wonder whether their hateful talk is dangerous and should be stopped, or harmless venting by people desperately needing support. I really haven't any idea how to tell the difference between dangerous hateful speech and the harmless venting kind of talk. Which makes the world a scarier place.

"Hate speech is speech that offends, threatens, or insults groups, based on race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, disability, or other traits. Should hate speech be discouraged? The answer is easy - of course!"

The issue is corellation doesn't equal causation. Some people on the spectrum could very well be violent but it isn't caused by autism. However sometimes they are incorrectly conflated, thus leading to the spread of hate and misinformation. One example is where some folks tell others to stay away from relationships with anyone who has autism.

Autism isn't the problem at hand; violence is a problem. If I get attacked by a black person, is it rational for me to start avoiding all black people? No. The fear may be real but it's irrational fear borne out of ignorance.

http://militaryfamily.about.com/od/woun ... g-Ptsd.htm

And that's just for those with military PTSD on a quick search.

People who are in troubled relationship can and should seek out others who share their experience.

I agree it's good to seek out others. I guess the part I'm not following is because some of the people who are frightened by a partner with PTSD get PTSD themself but no one says because I've been a victim and have PTSD I'm dangerous, even if the partners PTSD relates to their being frightening, so I don't understand how it's any different with autism when we don't label crime victims with PTSD as dangerous, we label people with a history of violence as potentially dangerous. What am I missing?

Not everyone wants or needs a support group outside their circle of friends and family.

For those who are interested, here is a good link to get started:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-livin ... t-20044655

Last edited by blueblahbleh on 03 Nov 2014, 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.






first off, not everyone with ptsd knows they have it, and even if they're diagnosed they don't necessarily understand how dangerously it can 'act out' ...until it does, and then they can be so traumatized by evidence of their own ptsd-related violence (which still makes no sense to them) that they're even more determined than ever to stand by similarly afflicted family members, even if / when they know that puts their own safety at risk. They may search for logical reasons for their (and ie their partner's) frustrations and outbursts, constantly trying to rationalize 'irrational' behaviour, in part becoz that might prevent it from happening again, but also becoz otherwize they'd feel insane. And the people around them, who know that their personalities are ok most of the time, are also trying to rationalize their 'irrational' behaviour, becoz 'surely' anyone who behaves normally most of the time can't be insane. None of those people plan to do anyone any harm, so they don't [like to] think of themselves / eachother as dangerous. A good doctor / therapist would never simply diagnose someone and not explain how complex the problem is, let alone leave them without support, but many health care pro's don't understand ptsd very well, so are either of little help, or are so accusatory that they make things worse ~ blame is not very constructive in such situations, yet people are condemned for 'acting out', or pathologized for standing by dangerously-traumatized relatives, and society is left so confused about the whole thing that some people believe there is no peaceful solution to the problem ...so when they then find themselves in such a situation they either cut and run, or grit their teeth and bear it ...alone. & when they hear of an affected family they either condemn or keep an 'impartial' distance. In such a climate, even if someone knew they could be (or were) a danger to those they love, how would they know who to trust with such info? Psychiatry really needs to stop hoarding its knowledge about such matters / really needs to make the public aware ...enough that none of the victims have to worry that their family will be [permanently] broken-up, or fear sensationalist 'news' reports etc etc.

I have been verbally attacked by a PTSD person because she thought I was saying something else I wasn't even saying because something I said triggered her flashback so she reacted to that and the only problem I had about it was her not taking responsibility for her reaction and apologizing. I got lot of sympathy from other autistic members in the group and thought it was wrong how she treated me and even the leader of the group talked to her about it because she broke a rule and only one person thought I was at fault because I "pushed her buttons" and justified her behavior. It still got brought up occasionally by other people who witnessed it and now it hasn't in a while because I have not seen those people around. I did run into someone a couple weeks back who went to the group and she thought I was that other person but I told her no it was me and it was a short chat and then she left and did her shopping. That incident never got brought up by her.

I have only met one PTSD person, I have met one. She does not represent all PTSD people and not all of them treat people that way. I still wouldn't be justified if I started saying all PTSD people are mean and abusive and attack people for no reason and never see it as their fault and how they are toxic and should be avoided. I have met others who also say they have it and they are nothing like her so I don't fear them like I do with her. I just don't know what will set her off and I know she has done it to others online. I have heard stories about some doing violent crimes like killing and Aileen Wournos probably had it too so she killed a guy whenever she got a flashback of her rape. She was labeled as a monster and evil by the media and called a b***h on the talk radio my dad was listening to the day before her execution. To me she was someone who should have been put in a hospital than put down.

My husband has it too and when I said something to him this summer when I got upset, it triggered his past so he got very upset and said he will just take a bus ticket home so he won't "ruin" my vacation anymore and I guess every PTSD person will handle their flashbacks differently.

Maybe PTSD isn't a good example. Or maybe PTSD alone isn't enough to cause someone to be an abuser. But it's long been known that people with PTSD caused from violent trauma (particularly it seems where they have been the perpetrators of that violence or at least actors in the violent situation, e.g. soldiers) have a much higher propensity for abusive behaviour and yes physical violence - sometime murderous physical violence.

And people with other disorders or mental illnesses are also more likely to be abusive in their relationships - e.g. schizophrenia, npd, etc. But it does not mean that they will be. Even NPD people can be wonderful and charming friends. They can also be fantastic parents to their favoured child, I guess. I don't think it's my mother's fault that she has NPD, nor I do think she has any control over it. Her condition prevents self-awareness. But her behaviour IS abusive.

I think the same with ASD. I don't think that there's a guarantee that someone will be abusive if they have ASD. But I think there's enough of something there to be cautious.

I think some of the behaviours that go hand in glove with ASD feel abusive even if the intent isn't there. After I was no longer my husband's special interest, being talked over, being droned at and never being asked how I felt or how my day is feels neglectful and hurtful. In the big scheme of things it's hardly the worse behaviour I experience, but it's a kind of drip, drip, drip of corrosive effect. This is a very common experience of AS partners.

A common behaviour of abusers is to humiliate their victims by criticising them in front of others. My husband seems to have no filter. He's happy to say the unvarnished 'truth' whenever - often leaving me embarrassed and humiliated. He will criticise my cooking, my dress sense, my weight, my parenting - bring up mistakes I've made, etc etc. in front of guests or my child. I can see them cringe. I cringe. It's kind of a typical aspie characteristic - and many would say that it's not his intent to belittle me - but that's how I experience it. And before I understood this disorder - what else could I call it but abuse. It's still not clear to me if it's intentional or not. I don't know or have any way to know. I do know that it's abusive. I know he doesn't talk about HIMSELF that way to others. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't talk about his boss that way in front of colleagues with her present in the room. This seems to be a common experience of people married to AS spouses.

Far worse is his lashing out at me when he feels stress because of social anxiety or unexpected change. I can now understand why he feels this way and isn't in control of those feelings, but I have a hard time understanding what he is and isn't in control of when he calls me names, picks fights, etc in order to relieve some of his anxiety. Is it abuse? It certainly is. Particularly since there is a pervasive pattern of this behaviour and it leaves me distraught and upset. Since coming here, I have a better understanding of when these things are likely to happen. But it also means that I avoid all kinds of NORMAL things with him. These things don't always happen, so I was always on guard. Always tense. And it means I'm no longer willing to socialise with him if I don't have to and I'm always on edge if I do have to. Because I know there could well be a vicious and abusive verbal attack.

Far, far worse is anxiety and defensiveness if I have a problem with something or if I ask him to do something he doesn't want to do. He can really lash out and has been known to say absolutely outrageous and offensive things, storm around sometimes causing me to be in fear of physical harm. Though he has never hit me, he has laid hands on me, he has raised his hand at me and shouted at me. So there has been an implied threat of physical violence. In a meltdown he once pounded the headrest of my car seat behind me when I was driving. I was terrified. (I made him get out of the car. I was so scared.) This means that I feel I can't ask anything of him or ask him to change any behaviour. I have no idea if this is a control mechanism or a meltdown or a bit of both. I can only experience this as abuse.

I have looked at all the hints and tips on communication. I will admit I can't always follow them, but even when I do I can sometimes get the disastrous results because he's stressed about something else.

Abuse is defined by behaviour and behaviour isn't defined by intent.

I think this is an underexplored area. I think it hasn't been researched as much as it should have. Domestic abuse is already something that is hard to talk about. Yes, I do feel a great deal of shame that I've put up with this and continue to live in this situation.

I only have anecdotal evidence of my own experience and the reported experience of others. Not just people form that forum, but people in this forum and reading about the way they're treated by their AS partners (either as an NT or AS partner) or the way they treat their partners or family members - which frankly sometimes reads pretty bad especially alongside the failure to take any responsibility for their behaviour - either blaming others for triggering sometimes violent outbursts or blaming the condition itself.

But given this rather limited data set, I would have to say I have a sense that there IS a connection. But of course, I acknowledge the limitation of the data. I have neither the time, the resources nor the inclination to do a big study.

Is it possible to not be an abuser and still do abusive behavior often and still not be considered an abuser but instead it's still called abuse?

I guess calling something abuse is not the same as calling someone an abuser. I have been told how there is a difference between calling a person something and saying what they are doing something. For example there is a difference between calling someone stupid and saying what they did was stupid.

Autism is not the source of abusive behavior and/or acts of violence. Period.

I'm very sorry you have had to experience those things elkclan. I really feel for you. Sometimes life can be exciting, wonderful, and beautiful. Other times it can take us to very dark places. Hopefully you can find the strength to make life better. Only you can make yourself happy. We can help others but ultimately it's up to them to help themselves. Take it one step at a time and don't give up, whatever direction you choose.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

If your autistic partner is abusive, get help. Find a good therapist. If that's not an option or if your partner isn't willing to take responsibility and change, I suggest you get out. This isn't about avoiding anyone who has autism - stay away from abusive or violent people when the situation necessitates it. We have an obligation to help our friends and family but we also have an obligation to protect ourselves, our friends, and our families. Think before you act - it's what separates us as humans from animals.