Self-diagnosis

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skibum
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07 Jun 2016, 8:20 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:

Any reference to 'language police' is sidestepping the issue: settling on definitions is the very thing allowing anything resembling communication.

If it is medically true that one cannot have a condition until after he has been diagnosed like you say, that has to be written somewhere. That is a very weighted statement and so far you are the only one saying it. If it is actually true, it has to be very clear to diagnosticians and doctors so there must be written evidence of it. That kind of claim cannot just be assumed by the medical community.

I have asked you to provide written documentation, other than your own words, supporting this claim and you have not.

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skibum
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07 Jun 2016, 8:22 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:

skibum wrote:

I may be misquoting you and forgive me if I am, but to argue that people should say the exact words, "I suspect I have Autism," feels like word policing to me. To say that other words can't mean the same as that feels like word policing to me also.

I'll respond to you this time since you're not being patronising and actually addressing a point I made:

The benefit of the word 'suspect' over 'self-diagnose' (or 'self-identify', or any such variation) is the neutrality of it.

It would be very difficult to misinterpret 'suspect'.

Whereas, a sentence containing a word such as 'diagnose(d)' could very easily be misread.

I'd personally add more by saying 'I suspect I may be autistic', therefore further reinforcing the unknown aspect.

Whereas - and this is possibly the key issue for those who refer to themselves as 'self-diagnosed': the phrase 'self-diagnosed' gives no indication to the possibility/likelihood of any doubt at all.

It is this use of language to imply assuredness that is misleading. And I think this is why those who do not have an official diagnosis wish to use such language - it removes the presence of doubt.

If all of the above can be refuted, I'll happily accept, should the logic stand.

And take note throughout this entire thread - I'm in no way against someone saying they suspect.

To your point RE 'word policing': this is another phrase that sidesteps & obscures an issue by giving it a negative frame.

Were I to offer you dinner and ask if you'd like steak or salmon, I'm not 'choice policing'.

Given my response is measured, a measured response from yourself is appreciated & expected in advance.

Since I feel that you are being patronizing this time, I will not respond.

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sonicallysensitive
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07 Jun 2016, 8:27 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

It would have been "perceived" by most beings of normal hearing sensitivity had they been present.

We don't need ears to perceive sound. Hence I chose the word 'perceive'.

kraftiekortie wrote:

Whether it was "perceived" by anybody, or any thing, an actual sound, or "noise" was made by the tree falling onto the ground.

There is no proof.

And that's the key point.

That the sun will rise tomorrow, is an hypothesis; and that means that we do not know whether it will rise.

And before the quasi-mockery begins: the above quote is Wittgenstein.

The point? We need proof.

RE autism: the proof is the medical diagnosis.

Without proof, we can only ever suspect.

I'm hoping the following will make sense - if so, you'll likely smile at it:

Why did people believe the sun rotated the earth? Because it looked that way.

...And how does the earth rotating the sun look?

sonicallysensitive
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07 Jun 2016, 8:30 pm

skibum wrote:

sonicallysensitive wrote:

Any reference to 'language police' is sidestepping the issue: settling on definitions is the very thing allowing anything resembling communication.

The diagnosis confirms the suspicion.

I thought it was obvious enough to not require addressing.

YippySkippy
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07 Jun 2016, 8:31 pm

Quote:

If it is medically true that one cannot have a condition until after he has been diagnosed like you say, that has to be written somewhere.

If the condition didn't exist until it was diagnosed, then upon what evidence was it diagnosed?
We can cure autism by forbidding anyone to diagnose it.
Autism is caused by mental health professionals.
:lol:

skibum
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07 Jun 2016, 8:34 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:

skibum wrote:

sonicallysensitive wrote:

Any reference to 'language police' is sidestepping the issue: settling on definitions is the very thing allowing anything resembling communication.

The diagnosis confirms the suspicion.

I thought it was obvious enough to not require addressing.

You have not answered the question. Perhaps you misunderstood it.

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AspieUtah
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07 Jun 2016, 8:35 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

Quote:

If it is medically true that one cannot have a condition until after he has been diagnosed like you say, that has to be written somewhere.

Ooooh, that is almost Taoist in its simplicity.

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kraftiekortie
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07 Jun 2016, 8:37 pm

It is not a hypothesis that the tree hitting the ground made a sound/noise. It's something that definitely occurred.

Yes, it is a hypothesis that the sun will rise tomorrow. It is a hypothesis that I will exist past the point of me writing this post.

FizzyOrange
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07 Jun 2016, 8:38 pm

I've been looking into it. I've taken a quiz here and there and have been getting opinions which have been mixed. I'm at a place in m y life where these suspected symptoms have been getting in the way and I would like to receive help. Anytime I go to a therapist, they never listen when I say something is a problem, like not being able to fully do things because I'm slower or not understanding. I don't even know what to do at this point. My therapist only said it's depression and she's all I can afford right now. No one will listen to me and they only give me useless advice or instructions that are impossible to my situation.

At this point, I don't think self-diagnosis helps any. I've read that you could self-diagnose and it usually just helps when you have that feeling of being different and have various experiences that can't be explained. Then, I've read that a proper diagnosis is necessary for when you have had certain areas of your life complicated or impaired due to those suspected symptoms.

To put it shortly, I'm not self-diagnosed because I don't think it serves any purpose related to my current life situation. I'm conflicted on whether to seek a diagnosis because of the out-of-pocket cost and the possibility of there not being a problem at all. And if there's no explanation for what I'm going through now and what I've experienced most of my life, I'm uncertain of what that could mean and what solutions there are.

DataB4
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07 Jun 2016, 8:44 pm

From my perspective, one purpose of joining a discussion forum for any condition is to see if their suggested coping strategies/treatment options might help you or someone you know. I don’t think you need to self-diagnose in order to do this. That said, there are times where even non-medical professionals are pretty darn sure they have whatever condition they think they have. There’s also such a thing as a “textbook case,” where perhaps a word like "suspect" doesn't quite cut it. Regardless, people aren't all going to use the exact same words, so we all just have to hope that people will be smart enough to take whatever they read on the Internet with a grain of salt. I know sometimes that is too much to hope for, but that's all we've got.

somanyspoons wrote:

Gender bias in modern medicine is very prevalent. Autism is a classic example. All of our tests and norms for autism are based in observing and testing boys. There were literally no girls involved with the doctors who originally developed the standards for identification. Today, the girls who get diagnosed continue to meet the norms set by boys.

The female brain does seem to have some bias for developing communication skills, so it makes sense that most autistic women would have better communication abilities, as compared to their male counterparts. But we also see that girls on the spectrum have significantly higher rates of sensory problems. My theory with this is that girls have to be more severe on the spectrum to receive a diagnosis, because of their gender specific abilities in communication. But if we normed the tests for women and girls, and tested them on communication standards for typical girls, we would identify a whole group of girls which were previously missed, and the increased sensory issues for girls would all but disappear, statistically. (There would still be some difference in sensory issues because those very mildly affected might still disqualify, based on their overall ability levels. Its also possible that the female brain has a tendency to have stronger senses in the first place, making sensory difficulties in autistic girls more prevalent, but we don't have as much evidence of this.)

It's terrible that girls aren’t always included in research. I would hesitate though to create gender-based diagnostic criteria for any psychological or neurological disorder. My concern is that a symptom considered acceptable for a girl might be unacceptable for a boy and vise versa. Even if research finds certain trends in gender differences, I wouldn’t want to see the researchers making even more gender-based assumptions than they already do. People should be allowed to be themselves without being considered abnormal, even if their behavior falls outside gender norms.

sonicallysensitive
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07 Jun 2016, 8:45 pm

skibum wrote:

sonicallysensitive wrote:

skibum wrote:

sonicallysensitive wrote:

Any reference to 'language police' is sidestepping the issue: settling on definitions is the very thing allowing anything resembling communication.

The diagnosis confirms the suspicion.

I thought it was obvious enough to not require addressing.

You have not answered the question. Perhaps you misunderstood it.

A condition can't be referred to specifically until the diagnostic process has been undertaken.

Prior to someone having cancer, they don't know they have cancer until it is medically diagnosed.

Prior to someone being diagnosed as autistic, they don't know they are autistic until it is medically diagnosed.

Someone has conditions prior to diagnosis - but the specific nature of the conditions can only be confirmed/refuted through diagnosis.

Is an autistic person autistic prior to diagnosis? Yes.

...But you don't know if you are autistic (or not) until diagnosis.

B19
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07 Jun 2016, 8:48 pm

Language can be used in formal or informal ways, for sure, though in most informal social settings/forums, informal language is the mode of communication that even hardest-boiled and academics use, because that's the language used in life generally. WP seems to be an example - at least 99.5% of posters are communicating using informal language, and if posts adopted the pattern of defining all terms precisely, I think there would possibly be a mass exodus of members. Even in public debates, informal language is generally used by teams, for ease of communication. My two cents, anyway, and threads go off track so often when the hairsplitting begins...

skibum
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07 Jun 2016, 8:48 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:

Is an autistic person autistic prior to diagnosis? Yes.

This is exactly the opposite to what you have said repeatedly before. It is exactly the opposite to what you have argued before.

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Grahzmann
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07 Jun 2016, 8:51 pm

sonicallysensitive wrote:

Is an autistic person autistic prior to diagnosis? Yes.

Hard to believe it took 18 pages to get here.

skibum
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07 Jun 2016, 8:53 pm

Grahzmann wrote:

sonicallysensitive wrote:

Is an autistic person autistic prior to diagnosis? Yes.

Hard to believe it took 18 pages to get here.

Yes, and it's been exhausting. I am going to bed. Good night.

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YippySkippy
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07 Jun 2016, 8:56 pm

Quote:

Ooooh, that is almost Taoist in its simplicity.

Thanks! Taoism is my favorite philosophy.

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