"I resign my roles at Autism Speaks" John Robison

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aghogday
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25 Nov 2013, 12:04 am

Verdandi wrote:
A personal attack is an attack upon your person and your character. An insult. An angry response is not a personal attack, it is an angry response. Angry responses can be personal attacks, but are not personal attacks by definition.

And considering that I was responding to a broad and insulting generalization about use of this forum, I don't see what precisely you have to complain about. Or is it okay to cast aspersions on people if you don't name names in your ~real world?~


Well nah..Verdandi..that's not how it works..if a person perceives a comment like that as a personal attack IT IS..

But yah..that's part of cognitive empathy..understanding THAT....


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aghogday
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25 Nov 2013, 12:08 am

Verdandi wrote:
And bragging about how you can keep this up forever when denying that you flood threads with responses until people get tired of debating the point with you is really strange.


The fact that I don't get tired Verdandi..is just a fact..that is all..

I'm not bragging I'm just reporting the facts mam..'just the facts'...

I never denied I flood threads with responses until people get tired of debating the point..

Not sure where you go that idea..and should I deny that people give up before I do....

I kinda like the way..i keep going and don't give up..

IN general too..

And yeah..seriously no one has likely survived what i survived...period...

That's part of why the therapist calls IT a miracle..

Just an analytical thought by a therapist..based on 2 decades of clinical experience..

And that empathy stuff..yah..that empathy stuff2.....


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25 Nov 2013, 12:23 am

Verdandi wrote:
And bragging about how you can keep this up forever when denying that you flood threads with responses until people get tired of debating the point with you is really strange.
It's a style I've seen before, mostly from people who are either obsessive or manic. It's almost as though they get stuck talking and can't stop, even though they've said everything a hundred times before and aren't making any sense anymore.

It is my impression that ahogday is not thinking very clearly right now--or perhaps not communicating clearly and only looking as though they are not thinking clearly--but either way, I am having real trouble finding any sort of coherent message in the scattered topics and random shouting. There doesn't seem to be any theme. I'm usually pretty good at figuring out people's odd communication, but this is really confusing to me. All I can get from it is a sort of vague emotion--desperation, maybe, or the sort of thing I feel when I haven't slept for more than a day and I can't stop doing what I'm doing, the sort of exhaustion that's getting turned into constant activity, as though you'd collapse if you stopped, but you can't stop. Inertia, momentum. Started and can't stop.

Anyway, all of this seems to be making everybody involved rather uncomfortable. I don't know if the rest of you are making this out any better than I am--probably you are since you've been replying consistently--but perhaps we should consider tabling the discussion until we can figure out how to communicate more clearly. Maybe a good night's sleep, if you haven't had one for a while. I do not think a discussion is very worthwhile unless people can understand each others' positions, and here ahogday seems to be having trouble expressing an organized argument that I can understand. I don't know if other people are having trouble understanding too. I can really only reply by picking out separate sentences, since the topics seem to shift around. It's quite frustrating.


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aghogday
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25 Nov 2013, 12:28 am

Callista wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
And bragging about how you can keep this up forever when denying that you flood threads with responses until people get tired of debating the point with you is really strange.
It's a style I've seen before, mostly from people who are either obsessive or manic. It's almost as though they get stuck talking and can't stop, even though they've said everything a hundred times before and aren't making any sense anymore.

It is my impression that ahogday is not thinking very clearly right now--or perhaps not communicating clearly and only looking as though they are not thinking clearly--but either way, I am having real trouble finding any sort of coherent message in the scattered topics and random shouting. There doesn't seem to be any theme. I'm usually pretty good at figuring out people's odd communication, but this is really confusing to me. All I can get from it is a sort of vague emotion--desperation, maybe, or the sort of thing I feel when I haven't slept for more than a day and I can't stop doing what I'm doing, the sort of exhaustion that's getting turned into constant activity, as though you'd collapse if you stopped, but you can't stop. Inertia, momentum. Started and can't stop.

Anyway, all of this seems to be making everybody involved rather uncomfortable. I don't know if the rest of you are making this out any better than I am--probably you are since you've been replying consistently--but perhaps we should consider tabling the discussion until we can figure out how to communicate more clearly. Maybe a good night's sleep, if you haven't had one for a while. I do not think a discussion is very worthwhile unless people can understand each others' positions, and here ahogday seems to be having trouble expressing an organized argument that I can understand. I don't know if other people are having trouble understanding too. I can really only reply by picking out separate sentences, since the topics seem to shift around. It's quite frustrating.


Well..maybe I should take back the compliment 'friend'..now I'm manic..or not thinking clearly..cause ya don't clearly understand my autistic communication...

I am using a new style of online communication that includes emotions..

Otherwise known as that stuff that makes humans humans..

But nah..I am still a maverick and will neva..be part of the herd...

There is no rule that anyone here has to respond to me..particularly with personal attacks...

Ya know this place really can be disgusting..or better put a place where there is literally little empathy for other human beings....

But of course in only my view..only my view....


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25 Nov 2013, 12:30 am

Callista wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
And bragging about how you can keep this up forever when denying that you flood threads with responses until people get tired of debating the point with you is really strange.
It's a style I've seen before, mostly from people who are either obsessive or manic. It's almost as though they get stuck talking and can't stop, even though they've said everything a hundred times before and aren't making any sense anymore.

It is my impression that ahogday is not thinking very clearly right now--or perhaps not communicating clearly and only looking as though they are not thinking clearly--but either way, I am having real trouble finding any sort of coherent message in the scattered topics and random shouting. There doesn't seem to be any theme. I'm usually pretty good at figuring out people's odd communication, but this is really confusing to me. All I can get from it is a sort of vague emotion--desperation, maybe, or the sort of thing I feel when I haven't slept for more than a day and I can't stop doing what I'm doing, the sort of exhaustion that's getting turned into constant activity, as though you'd collapse if you stopped, but you can't stop. Inertia, momentum. Started and can't stop.

Anyway, all of this seems to be making everybody involved rather uncomfortable. I don't know if the rest of you are making this out any better than I am--probably you are since you've been replying consistently--but perhaps we should consider tabling the discussion until we can figure out how to communicate more clearly. Maybe a good night's sleep, if you haven't had one for a while. I do not think a discussion is very worthwhile unless people can understand each others' positions, and here ahogday seems to be having trouble expressing an organized argument that I can understand. I don't know if other people are having trouble understanding too. I can really only reply by picking out separate sentences, since the topics seem to shift around. It's quite frustrating.


Yeah, thanks for the dose of reality. You're right about stopping.



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25 Nov 2013, 12:36 am

But seriously..all ya folks have to do is show some empathy..to me and the others here..and I will be on my way..to much greener pastures..oh my gOD..much..much greener pastures....

In other words stop personally attacking me..rather than using logic to defeat my points..no matter how complex or confusing they may seem...

Otherwise I will stay here as long as it takes to defend my character and integrity..and others as well...


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25 Nov 2013, 12:37 am

I agree Verdandi..I agree I'll make a truce if you will....2....


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25 Nov 2013, 12:48 am

I was stuck in angry reply mode as well. I mean, not to say I wasn't responsible, just, ugh. I don't like when I get stuck in that frame.



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25 Nov 2013, 1:15 am

Sincerely..OK..friend...


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25 Nov 2013, 3:32 am

I think that some of the idears and words of autism organizations like asan are not verry merry berry autism friendly, because they are verry merry berry difficult for some people like me to unbersmand, which is what I say when I don't understand.

I am one of the autistic people with crappy social cognition and emotional something something, so I don't unbersmand most of the messages of autism organizations run by autistic people, so I am left out of them in this way of other people knowing and understanding in a group with a group culture, and me not, so I have to try to participate on other people's terms, but I can't, because my social cognition and emotional something something is not high enough for me to be active participant in group and for other people to back and forth with me the way that they can with people who understand, so this is another reason that I want these organizations to have practical branch that I would be good at.


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25 Nov 2013, 4:45 am

Callista wrote:
Many parents of autistic kids are truly autism allies who want us to speak for ourselves. I get some of them on my blog, asking questions about me and my experiences so as to better understand their children. I have to always remind them how different we all are from each other, that just because it's one way for me doesn't mean it's the same way for their child. Honestly, though, these are the autism parents I'm least worried about. If they go out of their way to read what other autistic people are writing, they're the sort of people who care what their child is thinking and feeling.

Some parents, though... Some parents seem to think that being an "autism mom" makes them special, saintly, better than anybody else and the only authority on autism. They assume that anyone who can talk is irrelevant. They are often attached to a totally imaginary non-autistic child that they think exists somehow "beneath" their child's autism. They don't make an effort to understand what autism feels like, because to them it makes about as much sense as understanding the emotions of a deadly brain tumor. Autism is the enemy. Autism has taken "their child". They feel like they're heroes, willing to do anything, no matter how desperate. They use the "Not Like My Child" argument a lot, to avoid listening to adult autistics.

There's another nice little tactic--"not like my child". They'll find some reason to think that you're not like their child, even if it's only because you're twenty and their kid is five. Usually they argue that their child is so much more disabled than you that nothing you could say would ever apply to their child. They say that even if you were very much like their child at that age, and even if you are talking about universal human rights that every child has no matter what they are like. And if you really are identical to their child--well, of course, their child is "low-functioning" and thus incompetent to say anything relevant. Either you're not low-functioning enough to know what it's like, or you're too low-functioning to know what you're talking about.

Those of us who can speak or write in a way that NTs can easily understand do have some responsibility toward those who can't. We can't--shouldn't--try to speak for them. But we can talk about their right to be listened to, and their right to be treated with respect. We can advocate for good education and decent housing, good medical care. Many autism parents--the good ones--do this for their kids.

It's not just the "non-verbal" people who can use help, by the way; it's the people who've been pushed down so much that they don't know that it's okay to speak up for themselves. You can be perfectly verbal and still not have the first idea about how to stand up for your rights.

Verdandi wrote:
grahamguitarman wrote:
LOL talking about even having problems with high functioning ASD, I've just spent all evening baking bread (I've just baked the most delicious cranberry and pumpkin seed bread rolls). but an hour after I'd finished my wife had to turn the oven off :oops: I have a very annoying habit of forgetting to turn the cooker off - I do it every time! Once my wife came down in the morning to find the oven had been on all night!

I might be high functioning in terms of 'intelligence', but I'm not so high functioning in terms of everyday functions :( nothing in the autism world is ever clear cut is it 8O


That's so quirky.

Especially if you accidentally leave the stovetop on and start a fire. QUIRKY.
I am very prone to that. I know better than to use the stovetop... but I can use the oven safely because the oven timer is connected to the oven heat, and when you turn off the oven, the beeping timer gets turned off too. So, what I can do is set the timer, and only ever turn off the timer by turning off the heat. The worst that happens is that I get stuck for a while and the timer going off doesn't seem relevant. That would be a problem if I got stuck for like twenty minutes, but if I'm in good enough shape, cognitively, to figure out how to use the oven, I'm in good enough shape to get there and turn it off before everything turns into charcoal! Anyways, you could probably solve the "I forget to turn off the oven" issue by always setting a timer and always turning off the oven and the timer at the same time. If it turns out the food needs more time in the oven, you reset both the temperature AND the timer.


Yeah we tried the timer thing (there is no actual timer in the oven because it is a gas oven) trouble is I have 35% upper frequency hearing loss in both ears so cannot actually hear most timers when they go off :( I never hear the microwave beeping, or the kettle boiling, I don't even hear the phone when it rings! But this is a physical problem unrelated to my autism so I never mentioned it earlier!

It's horrible sometimes feeling so dumb when you have a 125+ IQ :(


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25 Nov 2013, 5:10 am

aghogday wrote:
But seriously..all ya folks have to do is show some empathy..to me and the others here..and I will be on my way..to much greener pastures..oh my gOD..much..much greener pastures....

In other words stop personally attacking me..rather than using logic to defeat my points..no matter how complex or confusing they may seem...

Otherwise I will stay here as long as it takes to defend my character and integrity..and others as well...


Actually I seem to recall showing plenty of empathy in my last post to you, but hey ho :)


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25 Nov 2013, 5:14 am

btbnnyr wrote:
grahamguitarman wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
I think that I will have to startup an education+autism project, because I have been thinking about it for a long time now, and I have to do whatever I have been thinking about for a long time, or I go crazy.

But my problem is that I don't have much time outside of research, so I am going to need project partners who are equally obsessed about project and have more time than I do.


I'd love to help, but I'm the wrong side of the Atlantic :roll:


It's not necessary for people to be in one place, because we could startup online, and it's not necessary to meet in person to work on project.

Well I'm not sure what i can do to help, but yeah count me in :) per the reliability clause stated by others LOL


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aghogday
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25 Nov 2013, 8:53 am

grahamguitarman wrote:
aghogday wrote:
But seriously..all ya folks have to do is show some empathy..to me and the others here..and I will be on my way..to much greener pastures..oh my gOD..much..much greener pastures....

In other words stop personally attacking me..rather than using logic to defeat my points..no matter how complex or confusing they may seem...

Otherwise I will stay here as long as it takes to defend my character and integrity..and others as well...


Actually I seem to recall showing plenty of empathy in my last post to you, but hey ho :)


Well..actually I did not say you did not..smiles..in fact you did and i do very much appreciate that..

I try to be a little direct..but again..I try not to direct things as such directly at people..personally..to try to soften the sparks..if you will.. :)

But yah..again..that is part of cognitive empathy..

Something i was in the trenches with for over 2 decades in working with the public..with tens of thousands of people...

I had to do and direct customer service..AND without adapting to and developing that ability I would have been fired so..so..long ago..

But on the other hand..I was one of those people who was too polite..and never would or could express any fiery emotions..in words..

That part almost killed me..for the long run...

The largest part of my recovery ..has been to be brave enough..to express emotions in words...

So yah..these conversations of ire..are a very good practice to hone in those skills...

But again..yah..I use every method possible to adapt and survive...GREAT!

I leave no stones unturned that I see..

And Yah..again..this is an unusual style of communication ..as it is a site for the Autism Spectrum after ALL...

But there are potentially hints here..for other people's recovery as well..

And yes..people tell me this by PM's..so I Know it's true too..

But nah..most of the people on this site by far..far...far...

Are reading not writing..

Those people are mostly always..truly my friends....

Per the ones who respond..by PM..that would likely never be brave enough..to actually post in this jungle...

Like the so called NT world..

Not the world of autistics that I have met in real life..they are mostly always peaceful and kind..per the support groups I have been in....

In fact they often express extreme empathy..nothing of this coldness I see and feel here at times..

But Yah..this is the internet..not the 'real world'..

Being a white middle aged male.. imposing.. with a strong jaw..222LBS of muscle and around 6 feet tall..

Is most definitely a 'privileged' way of being in the real world..

And yah..I know the other story..as the wimpy 120LB kid in school...

But that IS the real world..and competition..including the non-verbal expressions that come with physical and mental composure..IS the inherent way of the human social primate..and other social primates as well..

But I digress and talk about my special interests..

But Yah..for the final time..that is what some of US autistic folks do....and even some others in that group I am a member of..the human race..

So smiles..friend..th@IS ALL IS SEE THAT TRULY COUNTS FOR THE LONG RUN!
:)


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25 Nov 2013, 9:14 am

btbnnyr wrote:
I think that some of the idears and words of autism organizations like asan are not verry merry berry autism friendly, because they are verry merry berry difficult for some people like me to unbersmand, which is what I say when I don't understand.

I am one of the autistic people with crappy social cognition and emotional something something, so I don't unbersmand most of the messages of autism organizations run by autistic people, so I am left out of them in this way of other people knowing and understanding in a group with a group culture, and me not, so I have to try to participate on other people's terms, but I can't, because my social cognition and emotional something something is not high enough for me to be active participant in group and for other people to back and forth with me the way that they can with people who understand, so this is another reason that I want these organizations to have practical branch that I would be good at.


Well..this merrily berrily rings true for me too..and nah I am not making fun of your style of communication..I actually love it and think it's kool...

IN fact i have have even copied some of it..as just another one of the tidbits I have used to increase my enjoyment of living in the real life..yeah..you are most definitely kool..in my estimation...

But you made these concerns before..and I directly approached an ASAN board member and discussed IT with them..

They said they have no control over it and not enough employees to make things better..

And yes..i can understand this..as it is a very small and very limited group..as it is like a private club..where they only let the folks they 'like' enter in...

The other folks who may not agree with the party line..or go along with the philosophy of the organization..simply get deleted.. banned or otherwise what is known as 'shunned' in the 'real world'..

They are as so called NT..as any other 'stuck up' clique I have seen in real life..

It is very ironic..as Autism has nothing to do with whether or not someone can be ethical toward their fellow human beings or not...

And nah..that is not ethical in my estimation...

But I am a kind autistic..not out for myself....

But yah..that depends on who you talk to ..haha!


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25 Nov 2013, 11:16 am

This is a "let it all out"post. I will not "sort" or "grade" it, and I certainly will not edit it.

Upfront, I despise Autism Speaks. Oh, and I acknowledge that they have done some "good things" that make it difficult for those who have not studied the facts to see those of us high functioning autistics who are not appreciating their "wonderfulness" as rabble rousers.

I would like to share a few of my personal experiences to help you understand where I am coming from. I grew up in a grossly dysfunctional, crazily violent, and "entitled" family, filled with malignant narcissisits. My dad physically beat all of us. The others united and made me their scapegoat. Every time something was missing,or something was broken, I was the one blamed and received the beating. It didn't take all that long before I was not only being blamed for things that were accidentally broken by others, but items would be broken deliberately so that my family could watch me being beat anytime they wanted.

Of course it got to the point where my family realized that they did not even have to waste the time to get my dad involved to be a part of their torture. They could do it themselves. I kept trying to be "good enough" [and I was one of those quiet, well behaved autists, trying to be perfect] but I never was. When my brother sexually assaulted me, there was no way that I could tell anyone, because part of the abuse was saying that everything that came out of my mouth was a lie] Later on Saturday, May 6, 1972,, when my 21, 5 months, and 2 week old brother raped a little 13 year old girl [looked even younger] in our home, I tried to stop it, but it was as though I was paralzyed. Later, I cleaned up the blood that was all over the bathroom.

on Saturday, I THINK June 3, I was watching a discussion about the Angela Davis trial on television when my sister walked in and turned the television off. She asked if I had heard about Karen and my brother. I told her yes, thinking that she was referring to the rape, but it turned out that it looked like Karen was pregnant. My parents had been wealthy, but my dad basically gave up all of his net worth to pay the family off and keep my brother out of prison.

My mother and sister did not have a clue how much money keeping Kevin out of prison would cost[ it was decades later before I was told] but they knew it was a big chunk of change, and they were angry that "THAT SLUT" who had "SEDUCED" my brother had some of "our" money.

there were only a few days before the summer break and my mom and Kim decided that to get revenge Kim and I were to spread horrible rumors about Karen throughout the school. I refused. My sister came unglued, screaming that she knew I would do this, because I was ALWAYS the family traitor. It didn't matter when I told her that not only did I refuse to cause little Karen more pain, but that if we spread these rumors Karens family might change their mind about not pressing charges. This is my family, what they were and what they are even more today.

i remained the outcast [things became much worse] Their actions were beyond reprehensible. Me? I always struggled to be accepted by them. I do not know why.They would cause me so much pain, so much suffering, BUT they would also give me crumbs, crumbs so that I could in some way convince myself they were not monsters, and crumbs so that they could say "I don't know, to an extent, where Vicky gets her information, but obviously she is lying. Look at the crumbs we gave her."

I am not saying that Autism Speaks, like my family, is beyond evil. I am not saying, that, if there is a devil , that Autism Speaks, just like my sister[ I have told you almost nothing] must be his personal trainer. What I am saying is that, to an extent, they have used the same playbook.

Do what they want, then throw a few crumbs to the "ungrateful brats"[ many of whom they have tortured] who should be thrilled that they get anything.

My 19 year old son, who is an autist, has recently informed me that he hates autistic people. We talked. Part of the reason is those horrible commercials they used to air. My son, for years, [still has problems,less severe now] was passing out from neurological pain hundreds of times a day. The neurologist told us it was the most excruciating pain humanly possible, that my son would almost inevitably eventually take his own life. Well, seeing those commercials were a validation to him that taking his own life would not only relieve his own suffering, but the suffering of those who love him. He was, and still is convinced that Autistics are not worthy of life. [hopefully that will change at the retreat]

Most recently, I watched that horrific torture tape. That was what my son was going through hundress, even thousands of times a day for seven years, except that we were trying to stop it. I v am still incredulous that anyone would deliberately inflict the type of pain that my son has endured intentionally on another child.

Also, by misrepresenting themselves, they are misrepresenting us when they presume to speak for us [or say we don't count] Autism Speaks is huge. That is where people send their money. Just like nice people send their money to the Susan B. Komen foundation [another organization that syphons money away from advanced breast cancer- that's a third of us, folks- to fabricate false statistics all wrapped in a pretty pink ribbon] it prevents people from giving to organizations that could really help in so many ways.

There is so much more I want to say but it is getting more than a little emotional on this side of the keyboard [which does not make my opinion any less valid]

We need to organize. We need to fight. Because of Autism Speaks, we need to fight not only for our piece of pie, and for acceptance, but we need to fight against all of the lies.