Do you think that virginia Tech killer Cho Seu was an Aspie?

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If a diagnostician uses the DSM-IV-TR, they can't make a dual diagnosis of autism and schizophrenia. If someone is 60% schizophrenic and 40% autism, they get a schizophrenia diagnosis. This has been criticised because they are both PDDs and they can overlap.

I’m fairly certain they will not give Cho a posthumous diagnosis. They also know the stigma related to labelling him with this or that. They will, like a tactful psychologist did on TV recently, describe his condition rather then give a label.

"He had an innate organic condition that affected social relatedness, leaving him profoundly isolated. It is also clear he had deep psychological issues as well."

I bet that is all they will say.

Ever notice that when someone punches you in the gut, it's hard to think of anything but your own pain? How about when people force you to be the center of attention as if you actually are something special and indoctrinate you into a system of beliefs that you do not understand, but that are definitely hugely centered on yourself and your problems? What then?

I'm not sure which thing you are talking about. I would say it depends because it does. It is only a theory that narcissism is developmental all indications are that there is at the very least a predisposition towards it.

I never believed in god. I was brought up a catholic, but i was sort of ridiculous but the ritual was sort of like a stim. But I grew out of it I slowly made my position known. There was a little pressure. But I was assertive I wasn't interested and fortunately my family seem to leave it now. I didn't know what I would have been like if there was much more pressure. Going to extreme if I was completely forced against my will I would probably do anything to get out if I could

0_equals_true, are you a psychologist? You seem well-versed in the jargon. My major was anthropology and I took many psych courses also.

No not atall!

If somebody hits me I might think damb I can't believe I let my guard down. Or why the hell did he do that? Or I might be thinking gee that was a pretty good punch. Or I might think I hope that didn't break a rib. Maybe I'll be thinking about not getting hit again or about landing a blow myself.

Obviously I'm unlikely to be thinking. Did I put the cat out ?(especially since I don't have a cat)

But frankly I don't relate to that comment at all. I'm confused?

But most of that would be focusing on the "pain" - whether how to avoid it or determining how much damage was done, ect. The thing is would you be in that intense moment trying to figure out what the other person was feeling? Most likely your priorities - unless there was a break in the action - would be focused on protecting yourself first and figuring this out second.

No I’m just a know it all Me and degrees have never got along. I have a tendency to overstretch my interests. I didn't know what was wrong with me. But it has been a pain finding out there various things I have especially with the NHS being so slow and not getting the support. I'm trying to find out about ADD now, but first I go into avoidant mode like I did for 2 months before coming here. then I get a bit obsessed. I just find it all interesting anyway.

I had/have a very good shrink (rare) she was so intuitive and helped me with a lot of problems separate but some possibly indirectly related to AS. She Dx me with AS. I'm not so intuitive but I find it interesting.

Nice argument....

However I believe there is a flawless counter argument

If Cho was a Narcissist he NEEDS APPROVAL. He needs approval not just to be seen as strong it's about being seen in a posative light as an "anti terrorist". He knows the only way he will ever be seen as anything other than a terrorist and a pile of human excrement is if he is seen as a victim. Plus he has just killed several people and is waving a gun in the air he is not in a great danger of being seen as weak! He can also probably feel pretty secure that he will not be seen as weak at that time because everybody is probably running away from him screaming hysterically or begging for mercy.

It's hard to worry about being seen as weak when you have a gun I don't care who you are or whats wrong with you.

Could be true. Though not the only condition where constant approval is need. People who need to be told they are right constantly tend not to be reclusive. More common is anxiety about being right (as in doing something the 'right' way) with is something I think I had. It can be hard to take if you get something wrong even if there is no ‘right’.

NPD? Have you actually gone over all the articles about this guy and amassed all the evidence before coming up with that copy and paste job?

Thus far, from evidence on the net...from classmates and family, I have found that

1)He was a total loner
2)He didn't respond to attempts to talk to him
3)He was severely bullied at High School when he was made to read something out because his voice was deep in a strange manner.
4)He didn't talk til very late in age
5)He didn't like affection and didn't hug as a child, according to his grandfather
6)He joined the Science club at college, but didn't interract with anyone.
7)He carried an instrument around with him all the time and as a result, came to be known as 'Trombone boy'
According to a classmate, 'It was almost as if he was backed into a corner whenever you tried to talk to him'
9)He was under intense pressure to succeed
10)Cho's sister said her brother was 'quiet and reserved' and had 'struggled to fit in'
11)He was a solitary man who seldom, if ever, managed normal social interractions
12)He had grievances against religion and against the wealthy
13)He is known to have scrawled question marks on sign-in sheets and possibly a female's door.
14)A Pastor at a Korean church in Centreville, Virginia, where Cho grew up once advised Cho's mother to take him to a doctor to check for Autism
15)He listened to the same song over and over.

Still looking for more. Conclude what you will. Those videos are not really what one could consider evidence, in truth, as it is clear he had been pushed right to his limits, and fact is, even those with an ASD can become delusional or enter a psychotic episode. I don't know why anyone would presume that having an ASD procludes such things. Our mind isn't more immune to the strains of constant stress. If anything, we are more prone to such issues, I would say. I noted his voice was very monotonous actually, in that video. I didn't detect much in way of emotion.

He does have a monotone voice. I agree. I thought NPD also did but there is very little info online.

I thought Schwarzenegger was AS first. Later I thought he was possibly NPD. I don't think I would ever have thought that if NPD did not speak in monotone.

AS is 1% of population so then unless AS is a contributory factor it is 100 times less likely for the perpetrator to be AS.

A Pastor? Oh well he must be true. I actually thought he had been properly diagnosed LOL

Now you've diluted your original point and moved to a fallback position haven't you?

You said: have you ever wondered why when somebody punches you in the stomach you can only think about the pain

You didn't say: have you ever wondered why when somebody punches you in the stomach you are not really all that interested in analysing their personal feelings at that time.

And the answer is no, I haven't wondered that. Because if somebody hits me in the stomach I have no concern for their feelings.

I am however due to my physical size and strength sometimes concerned that I might cause somebody serious harm and that is one of my foremost priorities in such a situation. Because it would violate a moral code which is an intrinsic part of my belief system, and because I might end up in jail.

Funny. I do not recall saying the Pastor diagnosed him?? Must have missed that one, lol.
Actually, if you hunt on google for this guy's name and 'autistic' you will find numerous sources that say he was diagnosed soon after arriving in the USA.

How true! what you actually said was

14)A Pastor at a Korean church in Centreville, Virginia, where Cho grew up once advised Cho's mother to take him to a doctor to check for Autism

I don't think you had said at this point any body had diagnosed him. Did I miss that?

Like I said b4 you said that. I had thought he was properly diagnosed and if he was then the only reason I though otherwise is that if he were I would've thought...

During your lecture about researching him properly: You would've mentioned it.

If I merely missed you do that then thats my fault.

PS: There is no clear evidence to my knowledge that Cho wanted freindship or affection except from those two girls. Cho is not Brad Pitt! Not having AS would not have automatically result in him having a night of sweaty passion with either of them!

In general narcissists probably are much better looking than average. Many attractive Women are percieved to be narcissists, and many hollywood stars are percieved to have become narcissists. Many narcissists probably owe their social success to looks and hereditory status and are advantaged. Cho was in a minority group and he was a very wimpy looking guy who if he were NT would still probably not get laid very much if atall. Nor do we know how attractive these girls were (ie if they were out of his league)and if they already had boyfreinds or a multitude of better alternatives qeued around the block.

The fact she hid in her apartment and called the police also doesn't suggest to me he had AS since I often approach Women I don't know and none of them have ever attempted to run and hide or call the police. Though I did once have a drink split over me by accident. To provoke such a response with a single sentence from a balanced individual I believe Cho would've had to have said something like "Hi I'm questionmark I plan to rape you and kill you". Does anybody on this forum think this sounds like a chat up line that they might use?

Perhaps his reputation preceeded him?

Which may have been as a quite oddball, a scheming vindictive narcissist, or just the guy who writes crazy plays.

Or else the response was that of a spectacularly immature and insensitive girl who, either thought all Koreans were terrorists, or could tell with one look he was not attractive to her. Also he seemed to know well enough what to say to her online.

Last edited by Acerimmer1 on 22 Apr 2007, 4:19 pm, edited 7 times in total.

You know, it just occurred to me that maybe he was electively mute due to his speech impediment. This could have looked like autism... especially if he didn't socialize due to being teased over the impediment/ not talking.

I believe my signature is very appropriate at this juncture!