The lack of NTs' feedback mystique

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Thanks Janissy. I'm under the same impression that most so-called "social skills" are subconscious. I think a lot of it comes down to unconscious prejudice towards those who don't precisely mimick the behaviors of the group. It's a major social taboo to openly admit prejudice so people come up with other reasons and even believe their own false justifications.

Beautifully written, alba. I've copied that first paragraph to my WP nice quotes files.

An example: I once had a group of friends, one of them got angry at me for being verbose when she expected me to listen. Out of politeness, as dictated by society, she didn't say a word to me. She turned to the others in the group instead, badmouthed and complained and whined about me to them behind my back. In very aware, conscious terms, of course, as NTs know when they're angry at us, though behind our backs. My point is: should it be socially inappropriate to do what she did, our common friends would've told her to go back and tell ME what bothered her. I would've learned to pay more attention when someone needed me to listen rather than talk. I would've learned something rather than lose a group of friends to badmouthing, a group of friends that in impeccable socially appropriate fashion, saw no fault in her expressing what she didn't find pleasant about me behind my back, rather than constructively to me.

And if a boss told me directly, instead of lasting 2 years at a job I might last 4, which TO ME makes a world of a financial survival difference.

No more badmouthing Autistics behind their backs. Send them back to the Autistic and have them engage them in constructive dialogue. Don't condone the unforgivable.

alba, could I include that first paragraph in my report to the shrink that's going to diagnose me in August? With due credit, of course (either alba from WrongPlanet or any name you PM to me). I just think it'd be important for me to show her a text that strongly represents who I am and why I can't work and need Social Security. When it's so beautifully written, it'll be hard for her to dismiss the points in it and dismiss my application.

Great discussion. Janissy, thanks so much for joining in.

I have a hard time putting my finger on what goes wrong as my social skills aren't great, but I do consider myself more NT than AS. I do see clearly what my son misses, but not as clearly as some NT's do. Not everyone "likes" me.

Some of the easier barriers to cross:

Hygiene. Even if it doens't matter to you, it matters to them. Follow the basic rules you've heard about all your life.

Basics of style of dress. Again, even if it doens't matter to you, it matters to them. When an NT friend tries to make a tactful suggestion about what you might consider wearing or doing to your hair, don't just dismiss it. It may be their tactful way of suggesting you are currently doing something that is sending a very wrong message to the world. Dressing wrong can literally make others uncomfortable to be with you. Yes, it's silly, but also very real and true. You don't have to become a fashion plate; you can probably find a nuetral style that suits you without offending their fashion sense. Outdoorsy styles can be good for that.

Personal space. If someone backs up or slithers a few inches away while you're talking, don't follow! They are tactfully trying to gain more personal space.

With close friends, you can arrange a hand signal when you've talked to long. We use one with my son. This avoids making a public issue of it and gives him time to wrap up what he wanted to say.

You won't be invited unless you invite. It's that simple. If you don't suggest going out to lunch with people, they are not likely to suggest it to you. If you never throw a party, you are never invited to one. And the process needs to be continual. If you never invite someone or solicit their friendship, they come to assume that you are not interested in staying friends with them. And, unfortunatley, NT's are looking for longer, stronger, and more continual feedback on this than most AS are willing to give.

AS also give up too fast on their friends. Well, at least, my husband does. He will quickly jump to the conclusion that they don't want to hear from him just because they haven't had time to send a Christmas card and such. That isn't really true. They may be too busy at this moment, during this life space, but that doesn't mean its forever. Facebook provides huge evidence of this, all the people who start adding you as a friend that you haven't talked to in forever. Point being, at times an AS will assume they've been rejected when they actually haven't.

Sorry for dropping into the conversation so late.

Janissy, this is a very good explanation of Emile Durkheim's concept of "social facts." This concept came up some months ago in one of my classes. The professor gave walking on the right side of halls and corridors as an example. He said that no one actually has to be taught this sort of thing, they just pick it up automatically. One problem I have with this idea is that I very clearly remember my parents teaching me to do this, so I'm not sure about that example. Another is that there are things that were taught to me as social rules that others seem to break all the time -- the walking on the right side example being a good example, as well as not interrupting conversations by walking between the conversants or speaking out of turn, etc. I realize that, as with spelling rules, there must be exceptions but how does one know when an exception is appropriate?

Regards,

Patricia

Thank you Greentea. Of course you can use it, but no credits, just anonymous.

Thanks, alba. I'll indicate it was written by a diagnosed Aspie.

I really hope this is going into your book. It's the best and most beautifully-written intro to what being Autistic means I ever read, and you deserve proper recognition for it.

The positive feedback is much appreciated. Thanks Greentea!