Signing off

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No, I asked for help. You talk of a problem that I am unable to identify or understand, and when asked for assistance of any sort you flatly refused. I understand challenges, but this ties into an active membership as well - that doesn't mean upholding of moderator perceptions but demonstrating a better example of the environment the membership desires and what affects them most. It has nothing to do with status and everything to do with being responsible to each other. Without some example of these pecking order dynamics, I find it fruitless to discuss it with you because there is no point of reference; until then, I leave the subject alone as I cannot identify the barriers to involvement that you speak of.

Your tribal theory is interesting, but not a basis for how WrongPlanet is run and maintained. Personally, I disagree with your proposed future, but that is the beauty of opinion... we each have our own.


M.

People can read back for themselves and see that what you *actually* did was strive to dismiss my points by striving to make them conditional on an unrealistic demand, which is nothing of the kind.



Isn't that a direct quote from Peter Sellars cult radio classic "Party Political Broadcast"?

Otherwise, I think you will find that, as general rule of thumb *the environment the membership desires* tends to be heavily invested in the provision of options that are not only surviveable but also broadly tolerable to them, and *what affects them most* tend to be whether they will get, or be able to continue, to have that or not..

You will find that the majority of Aspies and Auties do not regard subordination to the dictates of the existing NT driven lobbies to be a desireable environment, if not in theory, then certainly when it comes to practice, and is too late to stop it.



Personally I think you are doing a subtle, but brilliant, "show not tell" that makes it all emminently discussable...



Sorry it's not my problem if you are unfamiliar with the well known and documented inability of Auties to cope, let alone feel comfortable with, either giving, or accepting, authority, but I am sure you can google plenty of information for yourself...

Or is it really more that...and I mean this as a very sincere question, having your little piece of power and status makes YOU feel comfortable, so the rest can go hang?

...Before anyone starts, that is NOT a personal criticism - I feel exactly the same way about lots of things myself including, but not limited to, efficient hair straightners and window seats on airlines...but is it an attitude is condusive to maintaining a functional autistic community that is tolerable to all in the long term?



I didn't actually say it was, I just pointed out that is how the world we live in is run and maintained, which is why most of us are incompatible with it...so now you mention it, that is *yet another* several reasons why the tendency of WP to head in the same direction needs nipping in the bud...or, if not, replacing with a new, different, and more autism-compatible community as a matter of some urgency...while there is still time to ensure that we have a significant voice of our own.



Naturally, the only real difference being that I am right, and you are not...but let's not fall out over it...it's not your fault that time will bear me out, without extending you any similar advantage...

Is it?

M.

Last edited by mechanima on 25 Jul 2009, 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And at this point, my involvement in this conversation with you is over - there is no point is talking to a wall, and resorting to "I'm right and you're not" is a sign that there is no benefit to further discussion. Your inaccurate assumptions about me are personally insulting, but you are welcome to your opinion.


M.

I know it's natural that groups or organisations change direction and the user/client group can change too. It's just that I'm not sure I want to be part of that change, I don't see how AS people benefit from the changes happening here. I'm sure married/childed/weallhaveproblems people feel differently, but I remain unconvinced by any of their arguments. I will no longer recommend this site to others with AS as I don't feel it's appropriate. I have been advised to take a vacation or be banned, so I expect to see a little red cross next to my avatar fairly soon.

Neither assumption, nor opinion, just rather obvious observations on your own, freely chosen, words in this thread alone...I didn't even realise half of them contradicted your *own* words in other, concurrent threads, until after that last post (there is a significant national server problem that makes opening some webpages impossible, and others laborious, at present, or I would have checked earlier).

Not that I am suggesting you are an hypocrite and a sore loser or anything like that...

Trust me, the issues at stake here, for all of us, including you, are far too serious for that kind of, relatively lighthearted, attribution.

...and why on earth would I bother arguing with you, a total stranger, unless I were certain beyond doubt that you are wrong, and I am right? That would just be an arbitrary power struggle and NOT my kink at all.

M

PS. Just as a little parting gift, when the page finally opened, I found a prime example to cite of exactly the kind of dysfunctional heirarchical control that must be prevented for any site to comfortably accessible to the majority of Auties (the topic under discussion is irrelevant, all that counts is the impostion of control used to *handle* it):
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf103758-0-135.html

WP as just another petty feifdom where truth, justice and sincerity have no value compared to where you stand in the pecking order, and/or how well you can kiss up.

If moderators were not a permanent position, but rather rotated every 3 months from a pool of volunteers, this could not happen, let alone prevail, and these things would have to be available for open discussion.

Last edited by mechanima on 25 Jul 2009, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well Postperson,

Though I suddenly feel sure makuranososhi has a misguided assumption to the contrary, I believe this is the first statement I have made to you on this subject...

I agree with you, 100%.

WP worked for a long time, but it really isn't working any more.

Unless there are radical changes, we need a new, better, forum now.

M

You've made accusations and done nothing to substantiate them; you are welcome to your certainty, but your beliefs are not facts.


M.

I agree with you postperson WP is getting rather stagnent a stalemate if you so put it because its either the same old question, some NT bashing and thats about it, it is a community somewhat if the people are there then it is but what is it but dead if the sam questions are perpetuated

I thought you weren't speaking to me any more?

Regardless, I did not have to substantiate anything, you did it yourself with your own behaviour to me...including trying to twist every word I said inside out.

Do you really think nobody noticed?

Or That anyone (worth impressing) was impressed?

Still, this is, EMPHATICALLY NOT about you personally, it is about the disasterously adverse affect of moderation (that was once done perfectly by a couple of remarkably humble and self effecing individuals, who genuinely did no more than serve the community), becoming a controlling clique over the past year or so.

Now if that is the way Alex wants it, fine, it's his site, he put years of his life into it...and I am sure a enough people will hang around to make that look good, and, of course, as long as the moderating clique can promote or suppress any attitude or information at will it should be a cinch to integrate with the big parent driven orgs and have ALL SORTS of kudos...and even money for some...

But...that will leave the majority of autistics without a community and a voice for their real needs (and don't kid yourself that those will be too popular with the big parents lobbies).

I saw it coming long before most people, and I am certainly not going to pretend I didn't just because you took your best shot at me.

My loyalty is to the wider autistic community, not to WP.

M.

Mechanima, you've done nothing but point and expect others to know what you mean while insisting you are right above all else. I'm sorry you're not satisfied, but if that is how you feel then perhaps it time for you to find some place that does meet your criteria. My loyalty to those those who need support, and to this site which has asked and entrusted me to be a part of helping to maintain it. Again, you're welcome to your beliefs, but insisting they are fact is another thing entirely. Nothing has been suppressed, no words were twisted... so perhaps you may want to re-examine your position.


M.

Why one earth would I (and others) say these things if I did not know beyond doubt that they were true? Spite perhaps?

Trust me, not my style.



I did not say whether I was satisfied or not, so I will thank you not to put words in my mouth. As a matter of fact I do not consider my personal satisfaction levels to even be relevant to what I have to say.



I did, ages ago...but that does not solve the problem whereby WP no longer functions as a free, autonomous community for Autistics to exchange ideas and be seen to exchange ideas, does it?

Nor the problem I have in finding somewhere I can, in all conscience send Auties for recreation and support and others for information.

As I am still a formally diagnosed Aspie, and there is, as yet, no other community, that continues to have a very real effect on my life in the default.



I certainly do not...why on earth should I? I have spent hours watching you trying to twist my words hither and yon, and then baldly deny it...apart from being demonstrable fact, that does not meet my personal criteria for integrity and trustworthiness...and I am fussy about that stuff.

This isn't resolvable...you have your agenda, and I have mine, as I have stated openly.

I personally think it is an absolute tragedy that WP has come to this...but there is nothing I can do to stop it...

However, that does not oblige me to enable it either.

M.

Last edited by mechanima on 25 Jul 2009, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If anyone has been twisting words, it would be you. You've turnt every single one of his posts into him trying to force you to change your veiws, or him attacking you. At no point has he done either.

I have not done anything of the sort...and if you have actually read any of my posts you will know that as well as I do.

M.

PS. Time for me to go now...this discussion isn't going to change anything for the better and just thinking about this state of affairs has me on the edge of a meltdown, and I really cannot live there.

Well, maybe it was the novelty, or something, but I think it was FAR better the first month or so I was here. Most of the people I REALLY liked, NO OFFENSE, either left, or became just lurkers. Every now and then I see a post from them and it is like seeing an old friend. I guess, in a way, it IS!

I am, sadly, a creature of habit. I come here FAR less frequently, but still far more than I should.

And some here seem to be a lot like I am, but some are INCREDIBLY opposite.

Oh well. I came into the world alone. I will probably leave it alone. When I was younger, I figured I would probably be immortal, simply because I never cared to live. Who knows, that may yet come to pass. I HAVE escaped death several times. Still, I guess it doesn't matter too much who I meet on the way.