10 Aug 2009, 5:54 pm
zen_mistress wrote:
Tantybi wrote:
zen_mistress wrote:
I think empathy is feeling the same thing as others, catching their emotion by looking at them, or being with them. Daniels example before, of someone feeling something when a womans child is murdered.. if I was with someone I wouldnt feel what the woman was feeling, I would instead feel rage that someone had done that to a child, and mother. But I wouldnt catch someone's emotions. I would have my own response which is separate from them. So I feel I have a sort of partial empathy. I also remember having less empathy as a child as I had had less experiences to build up a sort of "empathy complex" needed to reason how I would feel about things.
I've been wondering about that. I always thought it was feeling the same thing as others too, but then when I think about it, nobody can do that. Feeling FOR someone is sympathy, so that doesn't work right either. If empathy is being able to put yourself in someone's shoes and not having to share their emotions but get your own reaction, you can do that without feeling sympathy and without having to have their same emotions. I think most Aspies are capable of that.
I also think some people think their empathy is accurate, which I call a false sense of empathy, when they think they are feeling exactly what the other person is feeling. It's like they expect your reaction to be like their's because of their empathy, and they judge you if you don't react similar.
It goes a lot further than that though. I did volunteer counselling phone work with some very NT women, and it was amazing to watch these super-empathic ladies. If one would cry it would set the other off. The synchronicity of eye contact and body language.. sometimes it was like watching a row of dominoes, each one setting the other off.. sort of strange perfection. Im capable of boundless sympathy but I am not able to be in the group, feeling, reacting, adding to all the feedback...
Of course I didnt get along with them, lol. Sad story for another day.
As for taking on NT body language, I just dont do that, it is too much information. I tend to focus on voice tone and it works pretty well for me, as my hearing is very, very sensitive and I pick up a lot of tiny pitches... it doesnt work so well if the person doesnt have such an expressive voice though, or if they are good liars..
I think it is helpful for aspies to try and perfect the interpretation of one type of non-verbal, as we are good at focussing on one thing.
I have a hard time with voice because it's kinda raspy as I don't have my tonsils, and it's far from a perky girly voice that people would expect. So I can't change the tone in my voice well. I can't sing either. I have a great ear for pitch, but not when it's coming from my mouth.
10 Aug 2009, 6:31 pm
10 Aug 2009, 8:21 pm
Tantybi wrote:
Feyhera wrote:
Tantybi wrote:
Feyhera
Many Aspies, like myself, want to learn this body language, but I'm discovering it's an art more than a science because like us Aspies, no two NTs are alike. I figure people out pretty well now a days (I still have my failures) from analyzing their behavior and actions. But I want to learn body language and non verbal cues so that I can relay those. One problem is that I think a lot of what goes on is with the eyes, and it's unique to humans (as opposed to other animals). A lot of it seems to happen so natural like a reflex that it's almost impossible for us to recreate if we tried. I can't make my pupils dialate and stuff like that, and I think a lot of it is that if we were to find a science behind it.
Many Aspies, like myself, want to learn this body language, but I'm discovering it's an art more than a science because like us Aspies, no two NTs are alike. I figure people out pretty well now a days (I still have my failures) from analyzing their behavior and actions. But I want to learn body language and non verbal cues so that I can relay those. One problem is that I think a lot of what goes on is with the eyes, and it's unique to humans (as opposed to other animals). A lot of it seems to happen so natural like a reflex that it's almost impossible for us to recreate if we tried. I can't make my pupils dialate and stuff like that, and I think a lot of it is that if we were to find a science behind it.
Yeah, the physical dynamics, like dilating pupils, is pretty impossible to simulate. And yes, we do pick up on those sorts of things unconsciously. So, I'm wondering... just like my having to make up for my lack of language skills here in France by using a lot of gestures and hand signals, could the reverse be possible? That is to say, would it be too odd if aspies verbalized their feelings directly, or would that be too much of a strain? I'm just shooting in the dark here, but, if my husband said, "My heart is thumping in my chest and I feel shocked about what you just said," instead of trying to demonstrate a feeling of shock with his facial expression and eyes... could that work maybe?
The problem is nobody believes me when I tell them things, especially if my face expressions and non verbal language state otherwise. I do with my friends, and since they know me, it's different. Like I'll always say, "That's funny" though I'm not laughing or smiling, but I do think it's funny. Same with shocking, but if I really am shocked, I'm generally speechless and when I do try to talk, I'm far from articulating well. So I just say I was shocked when talking about it afterwards. Like one of my landlords, a 35 year old male, threw a temper tantrum over some food on my floor that the one year old chewed up and spit out minutes before he walked in, and I was so shocked at his reaction, that tempter tantrum, that I just stood there for a good second dumbfounded.
Actually, speechlessness is exactly how most NTs would express the sort of shock you felt during that ugly incident with your landlord (Jeez, didn't he ever have kids?
) I was breathless just reading it!
Ok, so verbal cues wouldn't work all the time, I get that. Now, I'm imagining my husband holding up cards with facial expressions on one side (to show others) and the name of the expression on the other (for the aspie to be able to find the right card). Is that just silly? That way, once in awhile, he could just fish out the appropriate card and show it to me. It could save a lot of time and energy and unnecessarily hurt feelings. Like I said, I'm just brainstorming here...
And the thing about people not believing you when you tell them what you're feeling... I have to admit, I am guilty of this with my husband. Can I just say, and not to defend but, I think it's important to NTs for a person's facial expression and their words to match because that's how our brains "detect" liars and cheats. So it's a reflex for us. Well, now it's a reflex I'm going to have to try to subdue in myself when it comes to my husband. If I can't trust him about his own feelings then, wow, there's no hope!
Btw, what do you guys see when you look at our faces (when you look at our faces)? Do you see the different parts or do you see the whole face all at once? And does every aspie see faces in the same way? And, can aspies detect liars?
