Psychological "Misdx" of Gifted Children/Adults? (

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I agree with the part about ODD and the spectrum, for me, anyway. I was very oppositional even when I didn't want to be. When I was doing something I wanted to be left alone and if someone asked me to do something else my knee-jerk response was "no" most of the time, not always, and if they pressured me, insisting I do it because they said I could get insulting and rude about it.


To me, it's not really "pathologizing". The teenager in the show I watched was just different in how he responded to people and acted, and this interfered with certain tasks NTs take for granted, like answering the phone when someone wants to place an order for a drawing or talking to people who represent his art. When people think of "gifted" persons they often want to share in these gifts; ie, they want to buy a drawing the gifted person drew. However, gifted in itself doesn't imply it must be shared with others. The gift in itself can be reward enough and the process of being gifted is what makes the gifted individual so, not what others think of it.

In this quote from the article you referenced it explains the difference between giftedness and a disorder such as AS and I do agree because I have been around gifted students and I know they are not like me. They aren't as nervous as me, nor as awkward. They get along better with other students. They don't have the stims and the compulsions that cause them to stand out or to be ridiculed. It is easier for them to express their talents because they aren't as anxious and people aren't trying to psyche them out. Instead, they are supported because they are well liked and know how to get others to encourage them which helps them express their gifts and share them with others.
I was sensitive too, I reacted strongly to loss of friendship and rejection because of my compulsions and stims. Elementary school was the toughest time of all because it's when my traits were the most obvious. In my school, the only kind of social deficits the gifted students had were dealing with jealousy of peers, knowing more about subjects and classmates not being able to relate to knowing that much or feeling intimidated so they made up for it by talking about the gifted person and telling each other it wasn't cool to be a smart "nerd". Then, there are people who are not liked for other reasons, not just because they excell at something or have a unique talent. I fell into this catagory. We weren't liked because of how we acted or what we did.
The gifted student might not have as much time to socialize, either, because they are asked to do special projects during times, like, before and after school and during recess, while a student with AS tries to make friends but is unsuccessful because of stims, compulsions, repetitive behaviours, repeating fixed ideas or they might not know how to interact appropriately. They might get picked on for being uncoordinated or thinking about one thing too much and talking about it all the time.

I agree with you. Inconsistencies and hypocrisy irk us although we might be that way ourselves sometimes without knowing it. When someone points it out, we may try to correct it. We want logical conclusions. If someone says they will do something, we want them to do it because we expect it.


I agree with that, too. I was much more sensitive in so many ways than other kids. I am still that way.


I'm not so sure about that. I knew gifted kids who didn't have any learning disabilities and kids who had them, but it didn't subtract from their IQ in any way, just made learning new things more difficult for them. It's a matter of severity.


Again, it's a matter of severity, because other people want to share in the gift. NTs look for the participation. They want to be a part of the gift and the more able they are, the less "disabled" the person with the gift seems. They look for the sociability. If they can communicate with the person who has the gifts, have a conversation with them, know they are polite and cooperative along with having a gift, they get a more meaningful experience out of it, thus, the gift becomes not only valuable to the one possessing it, but to the others who witness it and join in whether by being in an audience listening, witnessing in some other way or communicating via asking questions.


Yes. I think both autistics and NTs either one can be gifted.

That's why the criteria in the DSM should change in version V. Autism might be more about obsessing on a fixed idea than it is a special interest. You have to figure out what constitutes a disorder, or what are just intellectual or gifted personality types; an example would be someone who uses their intellect or special ability to approach people, relate to them, connect with them; thus, using them as a coping mechanism. It isn't fair to call these people disordered when they don't appear to be. At the same time, provide support and services for people who do have problems making use of their gifts because they do have a disorder.


There might be somewhat of a continuum but you have to ask yourself "when is something impairing someone enough to be called a "disorder". Most kids, gifted or not, experience lapses in friendships, moments of not fitting in, bouts of unpopularity.
That's why there's room here for Autistic Spectrum disorders and Autistic Spectrum personality types. The gifted NT might in fact have an Autistic Spectrum Personality Type, since it would be inaccurate to say they have a disorder if they aren't impeded in any way.

i'm sorry. when i said "pathologizing," i didn't mean by you. i'm thinking of how things are handled in treatment when there's a stigma attached, and when there isn't one. i think if a behavior is seen as, well--troublesome, but basically understandable---the treatment will change to something more along the lines of compassion. (this seems to be the suggestion for those who are labeled as gifted.) if it's just a matter of pathology---it seems like there's a subtle transmission of shame from the one doing the treating. (at least, this is what i've experienced.)

i'm not sure, but i think the DSM-IV includes AS under the category of "personality disorders." this seems a little extreme to me. really, if there isn't that much difference in traits--except to a level of degree---between those who are labeled as gifted, and those on the spectrum, well... i kind of wonder about the whole "personality disorder" designation. therapists aren't supposed to judge. but they're also human, and i think the way language is used affects their perceptions too. the whole PD axis is really pretty stigmatizing. and the description of AS is really, well---IMO, it's kind of depressing.

(i can't remember the exact wording. but one AS author summed it up by saying something along the lines of, "if you only go by the DSM-IV description, you'd think we were all a bunch of robotic hedonists.")

i agree that many things that might only slightly affect someone off the spectrum can be really overwhelming to us---not just in terms of sensory issues, but in the dozens of tiny slights per day by those off the spectrum. (and not-so-tiny slights: at times, downright bullying. i also suspect most of us are much more sensitive to things like gossip, because really the habit makes little sense to so many of us. on top of being hurtful, it's mystifying.)

i'm hoping some professional out there will understand that even though i don't express emotion very well--or even always identify it as easily as others---i am affected (often deeply) by what goes on around me. i don't want to be seen as someone with "blunted affect" just because it doesn't always show on my face (or because i have a hard time identifying and expressing things like grief.)

i've also had therapists who seemed offended by the fact that i read so extensively and can identify things in the same terminology they often use. they often seem to see this as a challenge to authority. maybe in a sense, it is. but it also seems essential to me to understand what's going on: so i put that hyperfocus to use.

if i had a label of "gifted"---would anyone mind the above tendency? i have a feeling it would be seen in a completely different light. would they see my lack of expressiveness as a lack of emotions (period)? i don't know. but i have a feeling someone would be looking around for all that "sensitivity-of-the-gifted."

i could be imagining it all. i suppose it really does depend on the helping professional. even so--i would like to see a slight perceptual shift about spectrum disorders in general.

Yes. People need to relate to the behaviour. It's a suggestion for those labeled as gifted, but, if the gifted is also an NT, I've noticed there aren't "behaviours". I can see what the article is saying. It's basically saying, "don't confuse a gifted NT with a disordered one just because the NT is gifted" and I think that's a valid point. People can dissociate the impairment and focus on the gift and think it's a disorder when it really isn't. There's fundamental differences between kids with AS and gifted kids, even though kids with AS may be savants.


I'm pretty sure AS is listed under PDDs in the section dealing with disorders usually first diagnosed in infancy, childhood, or adolescence. The description of AS is reality for some of us. It's not the description that's stigmatizing, more like our behaviours and being disconnected with peers that stigmatizes us more. AS is not a personality disorder, exactly, it's a pervasive developmental disorder and it's also autism. Some people want to believe it isn't autism at all but I've seen shows where people start out severly autistic in their youth and they end up like someone with AS in their adulthood so it has to be autism. These people are experiencing an autistic continuum that's expressing itself differently during stages of their lives, which would explain their progression from LFA in childhood to AS in adulthood.


I don't interpret myself that way. I'm much more complex. I had issues in my childhood that were developmental in nature although my development was not delayed. An example was my immaturity so I would classify myself as having a developmental disorder but it wasn't as severe as HFA or LFA. I wasn't a "hedonist". That description isn't exactly in touch with reality. I don't see how the DSM description of failure to develop relationships with peers can be interpreted as being hedonistically robotic.


I always blamed my CNS for it. I have always been accutely aware that I am much more sensitive to teasing and bullying than peers and I overreact to it. Even when I tell myself I won't I do anyway.


I am affected deeply too, perhaps affected too much. I consider myself to be "high strung".

It all depends. If you have a special "savant" skill others would encourage you to share it if possible. They would accept you to a point, as much as NTs can accept someone who is on a somewhat different wavelength. They have invisible feelers and when confronted with someone who doesn't communicate the same as them or has a few habits or mannerisms they consider strange, or, someone who talks about things that are "far out" that they can't relate to, it causes them to be uneasy and they can only handle "unease" for a short period of time. They will smile graciously and appear appreciative but it might be short lived. There are exceptions but I have discovered the exceptions are definitely not the rule.