Misconceptions re. re-classifying Asperger's in the DSMV

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No one would ever think of calling them a continuum. It's ridiculous.

You're not making any sense. Of course intelligence is a continuum. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.


Again, that makes no sense. How can you possibly justify needing help and special accommodations for it without admitting that it's a problem? If it's not an illness, you should be able to manage perfectly fine without special services, social security, etc. And therefore without a diagnosis.

The problem with this is that it is not true that everyone with Kanner type Autism has cognitive retardation, nor is it true that everyone with Asperger type has even average intelligence (much less above average).

As the ability to accurately measure the intelligence of those with Kanner type Autism has improved, so have the measured Iqs of Kanner subjects whose IQ has been accurately measured. While those with Asperger Syndrome will generally have intelligence in the normal range or higher (because the DSM is set up to vet out those with intelligence below the normal range), this still leaves plenty of people with Asperger Syndrome who have below 100 (aka below average) measured IQ.

That those with Kanner type Autism are all cognitively ret*d is simply a denigrating stereotype. One many physicians uphold, which is why we get nonsense incidents of people who do not qualify for Asperger Syndrome diagnoses getting “upgraded” to Asperger type if they start getting chatty and come across smarter than the physician’s stereotype predicts. That those with Asperger Syndrome necessarily have above average intelligence is a stereotype also, arising from a basic failure to understand how statistics work (the average IQ for the general population includes individuals with cognitive retardation, because such persons are vetted out of the group with Aspeger Syndrome, this group has a higher average intelligence than the general population).



NLD is not excluded from the spectrum in the DSM; no condition that has the essential core traits of Autism is excluded. On the contrary, the DSM is very open to the inclusion/diagnosis of any condition that meets the core characteristics of Autism, and I understand from the postings of a well informed member of this site that PDD NOS diagnoses actually constitute the majority of PDD diagnoses being given in practice.


Neither is being blind, or Down’s Syndrome for that matter.

will they address the oxeye-moron in the diagnose of AS?


"significant impairment in areas of occupational functioning,"
and
"No self help deficits?

Well, they probably mean the person has no trouble feeding himself, changing his own clothes, showering ect.

Right.. that's one of the first things I posted about here while I was examining the diagnostic criteria. Also: potty training.

I'm a little sad about AS being taken out, because I'm afraid people will go with the negative stereotypes of "autism" if they hear that I have that instead. Also I think "Aspie" is a fun word, but I realize that's an incredibly stupid reason to want to keep it as a label.

I’m a little sad at how common this sentiment is.

In effect people are quite content for all these stereotypes to exist and be applied to people like Temple Grandin (who is more successful than many with AS and many without any Autism will ever be), and (on a more personal note), my nephew, so long as they personally are not tarnished with that brush. Apparently it is an insult to and a slight on us if denigrating and diminishing stereotypes are applied to our detriment, but we do not mind if this is happening to people who are otherwise just like us but happened to get chatty a bit later in their particular instance of disordered development?

Sure, some people with Kanner Autism are affected in ways where they are quite different to anyone with Asperger type Autism (largely because of how Asperger Syndrome is defined), however, plenty of people with the Kanner diagnosis have had their diagnosis changed to Asperger type (even though this is not plausible in the DSM) whereas plenty of chatty folk with ordinary or better intelligence, who were initially delayed in chatting, have physicians who stick to the DSM and so continue to have a Kanner diagnosis despite being indistinguishable from many of us.

I do not think that there is any benefit to either set of stereotypes, and I am not so confident people do not attribute negative stereotypes (including ones about intelligence) to Asperger Syndrome either. I had a psychiatrist tell me she knew I did not have Asperger Syndrome because I appeared intelligent to her, so go figure.


People have all kinds of lunatic ideas in their head. Merging AS back into a broader spectrum where it belongs will not help those stereotypes, and it might even hinder them. The less narrow a group is, the more difficult it is to generalize about them. Non Autistic people have IQ, skills and functioning levels all over the place, and if we wish to be stereotyped less, being as heterogeneous in this sense will certainly hinder stereotyping about our IQ, skills and functioning levels.

I had a therapist try to "prove" to me that I must be smart because "people with AS are smart".. even though I'm not diagnosed! She was nice, but I'm not all that convinced of HER intelligence..


Here's a question: do you think re-classifying it will help to overcome the stereotypes against people with Kanner-type autism?

Just because someone doesn't want a stereotype to be applied to them, doesn't mean that they do want it applied to others. Especially for someone who struggles with self esteem and with expressing themselves, fear of having to overcome another stereotype seems to me like a very valid concern.

Yeah, I think the merging will be for the best. It's just that with my psychiatrist there seems to be a little more positive thinking towards people with AS than with HFA, even though they're really the same thing (in my opinion).

Do you think he and maybe potential employers would start treating me differently? That's what I'm most nervous about. Because I'm going into psychology and I think if you work as a counselor you have to report any diagnoses like this.

Well, stereotypes are one thing, but the categories "HFA" and "Aspergers" themselves were never any different. It is best to have a more consistent naming. After all, the whole DSM is based on grouping people by "traits" and putting labels on them. Making the labeling more consistent would at least help a little, I guess.

Just for a historical note:

Most of Kanner's original patients had HFA, and most of them gained the ability to talk (one was nonverbal); they were just of the socially aloof type in most cases, i.e., they didn't approach others, nor did they accept the approaches of others, they were "in their own world". He had a one who was clearly of the odd and eccentric make (the one who kept on asking questions about everything over and over), who would be diagnosed with AS right this second. He also wrote a paper later on about his more able patients, who drove, worked and lived on their own (they were socially isolated of course), who sound like your typical person with "mild" AS today.

Later on, they found that many people who were thought "mentally ret*d", actually had autism, and these people who were like the "bad" cases of Kanner's (the nonverbal one), were then given the autism label; enter LFA. It's pretty much how many, many people with AS, traditionally the less severe form of HFA, were given the "Simple Schizophrenia" label in the past. Now, they have AS, which may or may not be merged with the rest of the various types of autistic behaviour.

It doesn't really matter where AS goes, as you'll still be able to receive help if you need it.

I'm a little confused about some of the responses, or what seem like responses, to what I wrote, above. Maybe I should try to clairfy:

I'm not advocating choosing one label over another because one is stereotyped in a less negative manner. The OP just seemed to misunderstand that the general public sees HFA as more negative than AS. If I were dx'ed with some ASD I'd choose to use the MORE stigmatizing label ("autistic") for the sake of opposing such stereotypes, and attitudes such as "aspie elitism." And I also think having one label would help reduce that. I don't like the distancing that goes one between the AS/HFA/LFA categories, because some people don't want to 'look bad.' Solidarity in fighting for rights is necessary.

I am not convinced it will necessarily make any difference in the short term and in the long term, I suspect that advances in knowledge and technology will eventually lead to greater diagnostic fidelity based on meaningful differences (such as cause, prognosis or best response).

If it does make any difference, then I would expect that difference to be positive in terms of dispelling stereotypes. It is always easier to stereotype a group that is less visibly differentiated.


What is convenient and what is right are often different things, hence the persistent temptation to do wrong I presume.

However understandable or reasonable such fears might be, it’s still sad (to me at least) that people are more concerned with whether a stereotype might be applied to them than are about its existence.


Obviously I cannot offer any particular assurances in respect of your psychiatrist, but it would be very odd if they viewed you differently because the DSM changed its nosological categories. It would be more likely that your psychiatrist would change how they viewed the spectrum, but even more likely still that they would view the change as largely semantic in nature and carry on viewing AS and Kanner as separate (within their own “gestalt” of the world) and mentally dividing their patients into two groups accordingly, regardless what they might verbalize (in fact some physicians will continue with the Asperger/Kanner division as per DSM IV regardless).


I have no idea how any individual prospective employer would treat the two, nor whether you are obliged to declare. What I can tell you is that you can be selective in your language. Now or in the future you can describe yourself as having an “Autistic Disorder” a “neurological disorder/dysfunction/irregularity/condition/etc”, or a Pervasive Developmental Disorder/irregularity/condition. Nothing now prevents you, or would prevent you in the future from describing yourself as having an Asperger type neurological irregularity, or an Asperger developmental condition for instance.

That's indeed why the pressure groups push for a "spectrum" in their DSM lobbying - it's all politically based. This is how ridiculous labels are invented. In reality, if one doesn't look at personal interests, there is no continuum between cognitive retardation and cognitive higher than average functioning. There is no continuum between those who prefer to live in their own world and those who desperately seek relating but are constantly rejected. One day the diverse neurologies will be better classified, and when phisiological evidence is possible, it'll become evident that its ridiculous to continue with this political "one size fits all". Instead of an umbrella "autistic spectrum" political flag, we'll have "neurodiversity" in all its different forms.

Not to mention, people won't be so happy-go-lucky to start calling themselves "autistic" when they see it stamped in red in their driver's licence, their voting records, right to testify document, etc. and need to take an officially issued and highly paid for card with them at all times stating "I'm the cognitively-not-affected type" so they're not forced to come accompanied by an adult for each thing they want to do.

And I wonder if anyone thinks of children who, having a mild relating impairment, are diagnosed as autistic and taken out of class because autism, whether you want to forget it or not, is defined as necessarily including cognitive retardation. Unless this is changed too in the next DSM, Aspies will have a harder time than ever to exist. Considered "light" and therefore not eligible for much social security help, therefore being forced to work, yet considered mentally ret*d. A beauty of a life, indeed.

now does this mean wrong planet will remove the word aspergers and just have it as " The online line community for autism?