Financial crisis been blamed on people with Asperger's! (wtf

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Logan5
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04 Feb 2010, 3:45 pm

I have a hard time believing that there are more than a handful of people with AS working in major finance corporations, because the impression I have is that finance is the NT world on steroids. I suspect that most people with AS would not make it through the grueling interview process, and those that did would be attacked by the sharks they worked with.

This impression --possibly erroneous-- comes from reading articles like these:

Lehman And Meritocracy, by Andy Kessler
http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/14/lehman ... ssler.html

The End, by Michael Lewis
http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/n ... reets-Boom

The Man Who Crashed the World, by Michael Lewis
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feat ... /aig200908

The End of the Financial World as We Know It
By MICHAEL LEWIS and DAVID EINHORN
Published: January 3, 2009
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/opini ... nhorn.html

Investigating AIG
The Beautiful Machine
Part 1 | Twenty years ago, a bold experiment fueled by greed on Wall Street and blindness in Washington helped cause the financial system's crash.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01916.html
A Crack in the System
Part 2 | By 1998, AIG Financial Products had made hundreds of millions of dollars. Then it subtly turned in a dangerous direction.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02670.html
Downgrades and Downfall
Part 3 | How could a single unit of AIG cause the giant company's near-ruin and become a fulcrum of the global financial crisis?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03431.html

Also see
Masters of illusion: The great management consultancy swindle
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 88556.html


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Avengilante
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04 Feb 2010, 4:27 pm

Homeowner greed did not cause the mortgage crisis, that's a ridiculous lie the bankers have sold the media to absolve themselves.

Banks and mortgage lenders offering 'adjustable rate' mortgages caused the problem. If you buy a home and your payment is $500 a month and you make enough to cover that without putting a strain on your budget, you haven't done anything wrong, much less greedy. When your mortgage holder then starts jacking your payment up every few months until finally it hits $900+ a month and you haven't gotten a huge raise at work - presto! - you're in default of your loan and now HOMELESS, through no fault of your own. Multiply that by several million loans and you have a national economic crisis. People forced from their homes and into loan default and bankruptcy, not by greedy home buyers, but greedy bankers and real estate brokers, who think they can just keep squeezing more and more profit out of thin air.

How do I know this? Stop by my apartment sometime and I'll walk you over to the 'blue-collar palace' where I used to live. The former rent house that my wife and I virtually rebuilt with our bare hands after years of renters had trashed it. I'll show you how we hauled off all the garbage they'd piled underneath into the crawlspace, and the fence we patched, a half-dozen boards from Lowes every other payday, and you'll see how fiscally irresponsible we were. If the new owner will let us in, I'll show you the hardwood floors I sanded and refinished, to get rid of the urine stains the former tenants' animals had left, after I ripped up the ruined carpets. Don't even get me started on the plumbing. Yeah, on our combined $68K a year income, 50K for a house that assessed for 80K was sheer avarice on our parts! What were we thinking? We thought what the lender told us to think. "Oh, an adjustable rate mortgage means your payment can vary somewhat, given economic conditions, but it shouldn't be more than a few dollars a month." What they didn't say was it was more like a few dollars EVERY month, until it was through the roof. In the end, it turned out that a house we'd bought supposedly for 50K was actually going to cost us upwards of 150,000K by the time it was paid off. If it ever could be paid off. If we'd actually bought a One Hundred and Fifty Thousand dollar home on our income, yeah, that would have been reckless, but we had no idea that was even possible. Besides, if we thought we were gonna pay that much, we'd sure as hell have picked a nicer house.

So don't tell me greedy home buyers caused the entire US economy to melt down. It was the sharks higher up the food chain who were devouring every dollar in sight. It always is. The little guy doesn't have access to enough resources to cause that kind of fiscal chaos.


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marshall
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04 Feb 2010, 5:05 pm

This Taleb guy's conjecture makes no sense. The people who didn't see this crisis coming were NT's who let greed, hubris, and a delusional sense of optimism cloud thier rational judgment. I think aspies are perfectly capable, perhaps even more capable than NTs, of applying "theory of mind" to this kind of situation.

Back in like 2004 I heard all these stories about all these people taking out interest-only minimal down payment mortgage plans and I was like WTF these people will all be in deep sh*t if their homes ever depreciate. I can't claim to understand the tricks/games the banks played to keep the whole bubble thing afloat for so long, but the widely held belief that housing prices will always go up never made any sense to me. Then it occurred to me that this idiotic belief was the only thing keeping the sub-prime market alive. What goes up must come down. It isn't really that complicated.



Meadow
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04 Feb 2010, 5:13 pm

It's surprising how many people sign up for the adjustable rates mortgage plan.



Inventor
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04 Feb 2010, 5:37 pm

Well it was from India so I see why they left out Paris Hilton's boobs.

Media does try to combine current topics, and any press is good.

Being uncaring about the thoughts of others, what thoughts?

It is much better than the Autism Speaks version.

Excess money, and a shortage of investments.

The excess money came from the looting of American companies over the last twenty years, management got the money that used to be reinvested or given to stock holders, which made the companies low performing bad investments.

At first it only slowed growth of industry, till 1998, when the Dow hit 10,000, then kept going up on lower performance, because there was nothing else to buy. Russia? Eastern Europe? Money chased any return and taking ever larger risks became the norm.

After the housing bottom in 1992, Resolution Trust cleaning up the Savings and Loan, selling $80,000 homes for $12,000, the price rise returned much more than any other market.

The first in made lots, then the supply dried up. To feed a waiting market builders cranked up production, till millions worked at building, selling, making the loans, and the customers kept coming.

With the mantra of, your home is the best investment you will ever make, it was seen as a sure bet, in a high risk world.

All homes were valued by current production costs, like a 1975 Ford should be worth as much a one made today.

Tax laws, interest deductions, and profits as unrealized capital gains, made a paper wealth.

People do buy houses on margin, at rates the SEC would not allow. The Crash of 29 was because people bought stock with 5% down. When the market faltered, it caused a selloff, with no buyers.

Over production will cause a decline in prices, unless more customers are found. The standard mortgage was 20% down, then 10%, 5%, 3%, 1%, 0, and at the end,115% of appraised value, with nothing down, and no qualifying.

Then came reduced interest for a few years, interest only payments, and builders kept cranking out new homes. What was a private investment, buying mortgages, became Fanny and Freddie, backed by the Unites States, a sure thing, in an world of risk. Mortgage backed securities were rated AAA, insured at low rates by AIG, and sold to the world.

It was not over production that brought down the market, or lack of funding, it was Aspies.

As 1% of the population, they did not buy houses. They number 3,000,000 in the US, half of all people are home owners, so it was their National Duty to buy 1.5 million homes, and they failed their country in it's hour of need. Living in cheap rentals, or their parents garage, they caused the fall of the entire economy.

Aspies are agents of other countries. They do all own computers, and inside that Dell is a sticker, Made in China. They show their true colors by what they own, not made by a real American Ford pickup driving Skol dipping American construction worker, but by slave labor in Communist China, under the oppression of the Red Army.

Every dollar they can find is quickly shipped out of the country to Japan, for video games, anime, manga.

Osama wishes he had the power of Aspies, they have caused the fall of Western Civilization!

15,000,000 unemployed, Because of Aspies!

An out of control National Debt, Because of Aspies!

20,000,000 illegal immigrants, Because of Aspies!

A few Geeks in chips and software making huge profits, Because of Aspies!

Congress has been infected with a lack of Theory of Mind, Because of Aspies!

They are everywhere, at your job, if you have one, or at the food bank, in your church, offering computer repair, teaching in the schools, America has been invaded from within!

Beware! Being normal red blooded Americans, we try to understand other people, even when we are sure they are wrong, even talking to an Aspie can cause loss of mental function, it undermines all of the things you hold to be true, without checking. When you start understanding what the person repairing the computer is saying, it is too late, you have been infected with their techno speak.

Aspies are un American, their fact based thinking comes from books, the Internet, and not from real American values. Things are right when most people think they are right, and it has nothing to do with facts. There was never a "Citation Needed' before Aspies started running wild over our beloved way of life.

Aspies do not have American values, do not shop in our malls, are never seen at car dealerships, and what they do buy is on line, at the lowest price, with free shipping.

If Aspies had nothing to hide they would not stay home all the time and go to such measures as food shopping at off hours, avoiding rush hour traffic, and seeking job where they can tele commute.

Do you want America run by people sitting at home in their pajamas! Or less!

Aspieism is not a limited problem, each year more and more are becoming fellow travelers on their road to a future that we can only view as a complete loss of the values of the past.

Have no doubt, Aspieism is marching toward World Domination! One only has to look at their training camps hidden on the internet, WoW is not about peaceful coexistance, it is about the extirmination of the less skilled.

Do not be mislead into thinking they are just a few, known at the Library, they are gathering their forces as I write, one Aspie Army has almost 33,000 troops!

We know who we can trust, looking deep within their eyes, we know who is real, and just try that with a Aspie, or shaking hands, a pat on the back, It shows who is different, and different is for some reason.

Aspies are not like real people, they cause all of our problems, and some solution to the Aspie Problem is needed. Those who do not follow the herd should be culled, sent to wander in the wilderness where they can no longer be the cause all of our problems.

Only in an Aspie-Free world can things remain the same over generations!



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05 Feb 2010, 12:20 am

I also find the Swan guy's theory offensive and utterly unrealistic. The crisis is well explained by the fact that banks lent out high risk loans, then sold the risk onto to unwary investors who listened to financial advisors or brought into hedge funds so that those with exposed risk were the borrowers (who did not really understand their financial position and trusted the banks who seemingly had no motive in making loans that could not be repaid) and Mom and Pop investors who had no real idea as to just how very unstable and risky their investment was. No doubt they were told their investments were as safe as houses....no one mentioned the houses concerned were soon to be repossessed.



buryuntime
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05 Feb 2010, 3:43 am

Am I really the only one that doesn´t find this offensive?



marshall
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05 Feb 2010, 4:24 am

buryuntime wrote:
Am I really the only one that doesn´t find this offensive?


I don't think it's offensive, just stupid. The author doesn't really understand AS/Autism as he takes symptoms way out of context.



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05 Feb 2010, 4:57 am

marshall wrote:
buryuntime wrote:
Am I really the only one that doesn´t find this offensive?


I don't think it's offensive, just stupid. The author doesn't really understand AS/Autism as he takes symptoms way out of context.


And, more important, he does not understand the GFC.



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05 Feb 2010, 6:41 am

Over and beyond all else, the economic mathematics used in the article don't add up -- where is the "asset" part of the equation? Where is the VALUE Autism spectrum people bring to the economy ?

I did not see our 40 % more efficient brains mentioned anywhere.

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05 Feb 2010, 6:55 am

EquiisSavant wrote:
Over and beyond all else, the economic mathematics used in the article don't add up -- where is the "asset" part of the equation? Where is the VALUE Autism spectrum people bring to the economy ?

I did not see our 40 % more efficient brains mentioned anywhere.

Equiis (Autistic savant)
J.D./M.B.A.


you are talking about the article of Nassim Taleb our about the article of James Saft? If it is the article of Saft, half of it is about the advanteges of AS.



mjs82
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05 Feb 2010, 6:59 am

Damn! Someone's stolen my car keys again! Must be one of those pesky Aspies...



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05 Feb 2010, 7:03 am

We don't need any convoluted Aspie theory to explain the inevitability of crisis under capitalism. Marx had that one sewn up in the 19th century. You could shoot all the Aspies today, but the free market would continue to bang its head on the ceiling every 10 years or so. Greedy bankers were only the trigger, not the root cause, of a much larger problem, i.e. the fact that our entire economic system is driven by greed.



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05 Feb 2010, 9:05 am

alex wrote:
The author of this article misunderstands "theory of mind" and caricaturizes us as sociopaths without conscience.


That's about it.

No, people with AS did not make the current economic system. Sociopaths without conscience did.

Sociopaths are not oblivious to "theory of mind." They simply do not care about anything other than what best benefits them.

People with AS could not (in my opinion) design and operate the current US economic model without having serious problems. Those who made the economic model knew what they were doing, were very much in control (with the massive bailouts going into the pockets of key people in power), and was meticulously designed to transfer wealth from the many to the few.



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05 Feb 2010, 9:27 am

Fat chance. The average Aspie wouldn't get within farting distance of such high-paying jobs. I can't even hack it as a volunteer in a charity shop.



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05 Feb 2010, 10:34 am

zer0netgain wrote:
People with AS could not (in my opinion) design and operate the current US economic model without having serious problems. Those who made the economic model knew what they were doing, were very much in control (with the massive bailouts going into the pockets of key people in power), and was meticulously designed to transfer wealth from the many to the few.

I certainly couldn't, because the entire financial model of the world is founded on "be as greedy as you like, market forces will make sure everything is all right", and it doesn't matter how many times market crashes demonstrate this to be untrue, they just go back to the same model over and over again because lots of people can make enough money in the short term that they don't personally have to worry about the crashes they cause. :evil:


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