MONSTER

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TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I'm not saying morality is inherently religious, only that, as a concept, it is meant to transcend human artifice. It's "right" and "wrong," not "holy" and "unholy." Well, it is holy/unholy for some. The debate here is over whether good (rightness) and evil (wrongness) exist.

Hm...

Since you're arguing that the concepts themselves evolve from law, I guess you're really not considering law and morality separately, and what I said was wrong. In fact, I might have derailed the conversation even more than it already was, making poor Ferdinand think he was losing it and all. Bad Ixtli, bad!

EDIT: Clearly I'm evil, and Trolly McTroll OP here was right all along -- me azpurger's dun it!

LOL I really do not think law and morality are separate. We have a tendency to see morality as inherently religious, and therefore create a separation that really isn't there. Why do we do this? Perhaps it's an attempt to justify why some morals shouldn't become law.

It's not an unreasonable thing to do. I've certainly caught myself doing it when arguing for marriage equality.

Besides, you aren't entirely off subject. One could argue that if religion was right (pick one) then good and evil are not a human construct, but come from our creator.

I'd prefer not to assume christianty is true. While the prospect of eternal oblivion (implied by scientific materialism) after death isn't among the most pleasant ones IMO, I can think of few worse universes than one ruled by the christian god.

I am not sure that the moral good versus evil has much to do with the AS feeling of being bad. That is more like the emotional response of disgust, or feeling that other people are disgusted, like perhaps they think you have s**t on your hands.

I'm too sweet, to be a monster.

Um. No.

1. I've never equated my Asperger's traits with "evil". Well, maybe the genocide; I hear that that's generally considered to be not terribly nice.

2. It's pretty clear that something is neurologically wrong with me, no matter what name people want to give it, and it matches with what people have chosen to label as "Asperger's Syndrome".

I would have never given the 60s a second thought. I would have never became interested in The Olympics and than pushed the other sports aside. I would have never found out, who The Kinks were, because I would have been too caught up, in the latest trends and music. I would have never stayed single, and a husband and a child would be occupying my time, right now. I would have never been interested in anything to do, with London, and I would have never found out, what a Routemaster is. I would sure look different. I'd actually look female, with fitted clothes, no band shirts and my hair done up, in a bun, ponytail, or a twist. I think I'd rather be the way, that I am. The Modish CockneyRebel that you all know.

Why would not actually having aspergers to explain your deficits automatically mean that you're evil? I don't think I have ever doubted the existence of aspergers because I know that my deficits are real, that the way I am neurologically wired is real and that what I have gone through is real. I have never doubted the reality of AS because I know from experience and from reading the materials from the professionals that it's a real condition. It's like saying that blindness is fake.

Also, just because someone doesn't have aspergers but has similar deficits to aspies, it doesn't mean that they were somehow evil all along. In what way does having AS make you evil? Is it because we lack empathy? We lack empathy because we struggle with communication because we don't have the ability to naturally learn social skills and we often struggle with language as well because of this. If you can't communicate, you can't imagine what other people might be thinking, which is called impaired Theory of Mind. We might have the best intentions but could be percieved as being cold or rude by others who also cannot empathise because they can't communicate with us. It's a vicious cycle at times. A sociopath ( a type of person that is often thought of as "evil"), by contrast, is not going to feel guilt or shame for doing wrong and generallydon't have the best intentions for others (likely, they'll do what's comfortable and convenient for them, even if it violates others). Most aspies I know and most aspies I've talked to on this site have expressed feelings of shame for making the slightest of faux pas and feel like they are walking in a mine field when entering a social situation because they are constantly self aware about messing up. That sounds like the opposite of evil to me.

However, even if you do not technically have the condition, that doesn't mean that there aren't other reasons for you behaviour (such as abuse or a different condition, etc).

It also doesn't mean that you're evil!

I don't know why you would ever think such a thing. I hope you don't think you're a monster because that's an awful way to look at yourself.

True, but the OP said evil. In order to answer that question you first have to believe evil exists.

Hence, the debate.

I think I was suggesting that Corp900 might be confusing evil and bad, whether or not any of us believes in moral evil. It seems quite common in ASD to feel a misfit, bad, disgusting etc and perhaps Corp900 is using the word evil to describe a self-perception of the world's attitude.

But in the other sense, of believing oneself to be a potent evil, I would suggest that there are other psychiatric issues in play that are worth investigating.

I don't think he actually sees himself as evil. I think he's just trying to trap us into demonizing ourselves.

TBH I am just pwning the bits of the thread that interest me, because the self-demonizing perceptions are a recurring theme on WP and something I strongly relate to myself. On a bad day I would definitely believe that I am morally evil and beyond redemption, but more usually I just have the sense that other people dislike me.

I have to point out that the sense of being disliked is usually wrong, and the urge to run and avoid social contact means retaining the sense of dislike. Making stupid smalltalk about the weather will often get a smile, and completely remove the bad feeling (if only I have the energy to go through the chit-chat routines).

As am I.

I think that WP is the favourite playground of the OP.