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Is aspergers a fad diagnosis?
Yes 14%  14%  [ 13 ]
No 55%  55%  [ 50 ]
I don't know 31%  31%  [ 28 ]
Total votes : 91

Janissy
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15 Aug 2010, 5:12 pm

Craig28 wrote:
As far as I know, ADHD and AS are the two dysfunctions that NT's seem to want to have. They think its fashionable to have them or they think they can say they have either one as an excuse to get out of a sticky situation! Eg - caught speeding in their car - "Sorry officer, its my Aspergers. Its makes me drive fast". What idiots.


What evidence do you have that that is happening?



JohnisBlind
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15 Aug 2010, 5:14 pm

Janissy wrote:
frag wrote:

I see a lot of people needing real help... still they seem very unautistic and I'm told they are aspies. They still have issues that creates real issues on the psychiatric scale but.. as for passing as autistic.. I don't know. I saw a lot of people lately being diagnosed Asperger's that I feel barely have any traits. Then I feel that diagnosis is getting too broad and it will lose some of its bite. Still those people are in need of help so... I don't know.

Actually I feel a little threatened by them. If "they" get too many, "my" type of Asperger's will get marginalized.

.


If their doctors saw that they fit the DSM criteria then it wasn't a misdiagnosis. If they didn't fit it, it was. The tricky thing is, a person can fit the criteria without being like you or seeming autistic to you.

This is why I voted "no" I don't think it's a fad diagnosis. I wouold need to see some evidence that a significant number of people are being diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome who do not fit the DSM crtiteria for me to vote yes. There are probably some misdiagnoses, but without evidence that this is happening pretty frequently, I can't say that doctors are just jumping on a bandwagon. If it turns out that doctors are giving people the diagnosis even if they don't fir the criteria then yes it is a fad. But there's no evidence of this. Or at least nobody has yet collected any. "They don't seem autistic to me" is not evidence.


The DSM is not the ultimate authority on these matters. The ultimate authority is always the individual doctor and the education they received that enables them to make judgments over the mental illness status of their patients.



JohnisBlind
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15 Aug 2010, 5:18 pm

lostD wrote:
I don't know. I think it may depend on where you live and who diagnosed you.

There seems to be more and more people who display autistic behaviour without having any disorder. I've talked to some of them when I was asking about developmental issue in Asperger children. We had a debate and two of them were actually pretty much like me from what they said (except for the dyspraxia) though they were totally NTs. They also were parents of HFA, therefore they may have borderline personnalities.
There are many disorders which are like mild AS, Schizoid personality, learning disorders, etc...

I tend to think that the tendencie to over diagnose children with AHDH may be caused by the similarities between the different mental disorders.

I decided to get diagnosed for dyspraxia this year because I suspected it and doctors had already given it over names on my medical records, I indeed have dyspraxia... but ADHD is also suspected.

Dyspraxia, just as AS, is barely known and diagnosed in my country though there are more and more people who are being diagnosed with it.

Lack of attention is common among people who have dyspraxia. It's also common among people who have AS. Mainly because we focus on something else, because our development is different.

Thus, people who have a disability tend to be diagnosed with ADHD, just as people who have a above average IQ by the way. I think the main reason is that our brain doesn't work the typical way.


As for AS, I'd say that if there are more and more people diagnosed with it, that's probably because people are more informed. Yet, there will always be false diagnosis. It also seems that females tend to be considered as NT no matter how AS they are.

[And for the moment, the only thing that doesn't make NT is dyspraxia, because I really don't feel NT at all though I haven't been diagnosed with Autism and may never be.]


Well I think a problem arises from the fact that aspergers is a borderline disorder. And borderline disorders from schizoid personality, schizotypal personality, borderline personality disorder, PDD-NOS, all have symptoms which share common feature making a diagnosis especially difficult.



Tollorin
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15 Aug 2010, 5:18 pm

Marcia wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Janissy wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
On one hand, it is a serious diagnosis for people who really have it. On the other, parents of smart kids might seek it out so their kids might be perceived as more intelligent, which isn't what the diagnosis should be about. If it comes down to that, it will escalate quickly into being viewed as a "fad diagnosis", or not legit.


Parents of smart kids are unlikely to seek it out unless their kids are having problems. The parents might be completely wrong about the source of the problems and guess that it is Aspergers Syndrome when the problems are really being caused by something else. But parents don't get to make a diagnosis. Only a doctor can do that and the doctor has to be convinced the kid fits the DSM criteria. Not that I think every doctor will be right and I assume there will be some misdiagnoses. But there still has to be evidence of Aspergers to convince a doctor

I would like to be optimistic and believe that, but parents are more competitive these days with their kids and want them to have that edge and a diagnosis that hints at genuis might be it. An incredibly bright kid might get diagnosed with AS just because he or she knows a lot about quantum mechanics at a young age, and it's understandable since AS is associated with precocious aquisition of knowledge by youngsters. What if the doctor looks at that alone, and not at how the child is making friends and getting along with peers. Should a Doctor be allowed to diagnos AS based on the child's interest in physics and high IQ alone?


Is there any reason to believe that this is happening? Anyone diagnosing on that basis would be guilty of professional incompetence, or misconduct.

There is more than that, there is quite common points between giftedness and asperger: http://giftedkids.about.com/od/gifted101/a/overexcite.htm
Giftedness can also bring social difficulties, and asperger is more "poticaly correct" that giftedness.


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Craig28
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15 Aug 2010, 5:19 pm

Janissy wrote:
Craig28 wrote:
As far as I know, ADHD and AS are the two dysfunctions that NT's seem to want to have. They think its fashionable to have them or they think they can say they have either one as an excuse to get out of a sticky situation! Eg - caught speeding in their car - "Sorry officer, its my Aspergers. Its makes me drive fast". What idiots.


What evidence do you have that that is happening?


None at all. I never thought about it, I'm not at a point to be angry enough at NT's to be pretending to be someone with AS. I don't care really, let the NT's have their little role play where being an Aspie for the day is "cool". :lol:



JohnisBlind
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15 Aug 2010, 5:19 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
On one hand, it is a serious diagnosis for people who really have it. On the other, parents of smart kids might seek it out so their kids might be perceived as more intelligent, which isn't what the diagnosis should be about. If it comes down to that, it will escalate quickly into being viewed as a "fad diagnosis", or not legit.


There is definitely a kind of yuppy factor here. Not to mention a kind of New Agey my child is special kind of thinking.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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15 Aug 2010, 5:20 pm

Janissy wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Janissy wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The person who started this thread noticed diagnosed kids without traits which led him to wonder if AS is becoming a fad diagnosis.


The OP didn't actually say one way or the other but there was a poster in the middle who said "I see people diagnosed with Aspergers who I feel barely have any traits". But unless he sat down with these people and a copy of the DSM and went over the traits one by one and talked to them about what impairments they are or aren't experiencing how would he know?



Also, everything Celoneth said. How does he know they haven't been specifically taught how to cover those traits? How can he see whether or not they have executive dysfunction?

Not for nothing is it called the Invisible Disability.

I reread the thread, I meant what Frag typed. I was rushing thru the thread and thought the O P typed that post. I assumed kids because those are being diagnosed the most these days, by pediatricians.
He might know a lot about the diagnostic criteria for AS and is familiar with the DSM, and he might know more than one diagnosed Aspie, so he has experience there. He could actually have more insight and knowledge about AS than many in the medical professions based on firsthand knowledge.


I re-read the thread too and realized that Frag is a 40 year old female, so I shouldn't have said "he" in my quotes. It also makes it pretty unlikely that Frag was referring to kids because usually an adult will say "kids" rather than "people" if they don't mean a fellow adult.

But whether she is referring to kids or adults, my point stands that regardless of how much she has researched AS (and I assume she's read a lot), that doesn't qualify her to undiagnose other people. Only another doctor can do that and only after interviewing and testing the person. That's the part that's missing. The diagnostic interview. She didn't do one on these people because she's not their doctor. So she has nothing to go on but a gut feeling.

I typed "he" too. Apologies to Frag :oops: I wouldn't call it "undiagnosing", but she has the right to offer an opinion and since doctors nor anyone else are infallible, the diagnosis could be off. Some goes for ADHD diagnoses.
Normal childhood energy suddenly means a kid has ADHD and needs Ritalin when all they require is time to run off the excess energy.

JohnisBlind, the yuppies come instantly to mind, because those are the ones who seem consumed with intelligence and status.



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 15 Aug 2010, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnisBlind
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15 Aug 2010, 5:21 pm

Craig28 wrote:
As far as I know, ADHD and AS are the two dysfunctions that NT's seem to want to have. They think its fashionable to have them or they think they can say they have either one as an excuse to get out of a sticky situation! Eg - caught speeding in their car - "Sorry officer, its my Aspergers. Its makes me drive fast". What idiots. If only NT's really understood that having AS is living in a permanent prison, locked inside your own bloody heads and no one hears you scream for help.


I hear your screams. We could do Skype chat if you want.



pgd
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15 Aug 2010, 5:21 pm

JohnisBlind wrote:
Is aspergers a fad diagnosis?


---

At one time, the term Asperger never existed; the term Asperger had not yet been invented.
In the 1990s, Asperger was officially recognized.
Asperger is scheduled to officially disappear and be replaced by the word Autism in 2013.

Is Asperger's a fad diagnosis?

Apparently so as defined by the powers that be* which invents terms, amends terms, and dissolves terms.

---

Flip flop

Web definitions for flip flop

reversal: a decision to reverse an earlier decision

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn - Definition in context

(Google)

---

* Powers that be = Organized groups of business politicians (business guilds) which control all the definitions for the ICD and the DSM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... h_Problems

(Spellings edited, * added)



Last edited by pgd on 15 Aug 2010, 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JohnisBlind
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15 Aug 2010, 5:24 pm

pgd wrote:
JohnisBlind wrote:
Is aspergers a fad diagnosis?


---

At one time, the term Asperger never existed; the term Asperger had not yet been invented.
In the 1990s, Asperger was officially recognized.
Asperger is scheduled to officially disappear and be replaced by the word Autism in 2013.

Is Asperger's a fad diagnosis?

Apparently so as defined by the powers that be which invents terms, amend terms, and dissolve terms.

---

Flip flop

Web definitions for flip flop

reversal: a decision to reverse an earlier decision

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn - Definition in context

(Google)


A diagnosis of PDD-NOS has been around for some time. Its probably the most respected diagnosis. A diagnosis of PDD-NOS means you have features of autism but do not have enough features to qualify as officially having autism. However many of the milder cases of PDD-NOS are being called Aspergers IMO.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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15 Aug 2010, 5:30 pm

There's an ad in the local yellow pages under behavioral therapy and it has autism/Asperger's/PDD-NOS together all on one line seperated only by slashes.



pgd
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15 Aug 2010, 5:34 pm

JohnisBlind wrote:

A diagnosis of PDD-NOS has been around for some time. Its probably the most respected diagnosis. A diagnosis of PDD-NOS means you have features of autism but do not have enough features to qualify as officially having autism. However many of the milder cases of PDD-NOS are being called Aspergers IMO.

---

Agree.



frag
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15 Aug 2010, 5:36 pm

I'm a mere observer but I find it at least curious how people seem to be diagnosed all around me. And those I'm seeing are mostly adult diagnoses. I'm not really saying those people don't have a kind of autism, but what made them getting scrutinized is along history of mental issues. In my country there is MUCH better help for autism than mental illness, I don't know if that has anything to do with it or if it just happens anyway.

It's just a matter of where to draw the line, exactly how much problems does one need to have to get diagnosed? I see quite a few that actually have pretty good skills and still get diagnosed. They can have a mild kind of autism or very good coping skills, but anyway, they manage to have enough issues to get diagnosed. You don't need to even be a doctor to understand that "enough problems" can seem really relative.

I know a gut feeling doesn't count and I know the spectrum is big enough for all kinds of personalities to fit. Still my gut feeling has been spot on to "find" spectrum people in other situations. But yea I totally agree!! It's so not a diagnostic tool.

When I analyzed what I've seen and what I feel about it... what my real fear is by sort of letting in well functioning people into the DX, that people will start asking me and demanding of me, whatever THOSE people can do. They can hold down jobs, full time demanding jobs, they have families, children, they might have an inner feeling of social anxiety but coping well outwardly.... And I'm just so different from that.

Also I have a reason I ended up at WP, there is an Asperger community in my country which I joined and unjoined, because either people actually were quite normal with "normal" needs, or competing to prove they are very similar to NT or could easily pass as NT.

So what I said is quite emotional, yesh, a little freaked out feeling from what I observed. But also I only see as far as my own horizon.

I don't claim to be especially objective, maybe I should put that as my siggy!



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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15 Aug 2010, 5:42 pm

Gosh, you are lucky, Frag, where I live, it's the exact opposite. It's just plain awful and so primitive. I call it the land civilization forgot.
In my state, insurance is not even required to cover autism. It's come up in the house more than once only to be voted down because families without autistic kids feel penalized for having to pay for families with.



frag
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15 Aug 2010, 6:05 pm

Very huge difference indeed!

It stinks it doesn't cover you well.

When I was "just" a mental patient, I was treated harshly and mean. I had no rights. I had a semi large co pay to see health care workers. Then diagnosed AS, they all changed on me, turned nice, I also can see a counsellor without paying! And I have some other benefits. Also I get a free care worker once a week (sort of assistant), and I could also get another kind of care worker (for activation and social needs... I had for a little while but decided not for me). So after 10 years of intense struggle and basically no help.... I get this! I was uber shocked that society pays this because in mental health it was all about almost pushing away patients because they cost too much. Now I'm not saying it's all great, because some care workers are pretty stupid, but the general idea is good.

I so wish this would span over other countries and also I wish it would span over ADHD in my country, which it doesn't... And they would benefit from the same kind of help and the same teaching us aspies here can get... Life skills therapy or whatever to call it.



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15 Aug 2010, 6:14 pm

I think Aspergers is perceived to be a fad diagnosis just like autistic disorder. This is due no thanks to organizations like Autism Speaks. Although it is perceived as a fad diagnosis, I think it is actually under diagnosed. Any time there is a large amount of training devoted to a specific diagnosis, people hear about that diagnosis all of the time. Such was the case with A.D.D. and now, it is the same with autism. In addition, those who commit crimes as well as their lawyers will use whatever excuse they can to get a lessor punishment. When I was first diagnosed, I was taken to several universities and advance medical facilities before someone was able to correctly diagnose me. Autism was not widely known at that time. Now, just about every professional in my country who works with children has some idea of what to look for when it comes to autism. Unfortunately, they can spot autism, and can apply their training, but THEY DO NOT ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND US.

In addition to classic autism becoming more well known, the term is expanded to cover Aspergers. Aspergers seems relatively common compared to autistic "disorder" and is what accounts for most cases of autism diagnoses in my opinion. The problem that we have is the fact that it is much easier for members of society to spot autism in its various forms (and for us to remain invisible) and yet for these same members of society don't actually understand autistic people. Those of us who have the most severe forms of autism are for some reason deemed incapable of doing much anything as far as daily living is concerned. In fact, last week, a senior counselor for a local counseling agency told me she was was really impressed that I was able to handle the "big job" of driving a foster child to a visitation appointment. This is an example of a person who could spot me being autistic within a few seconds and yet has no idea how an autistic person functions or thinks.

In many ways, I think autistic people have it WORSE OFF then they did twenty years ago. This is due to celebrity status, gossip, and other things generally not taken seriously by autistic people becoming the object of worship among the NT population while things generally attributed to the strengths of autistic people (facts, science, logic, visual thi8nking, art, etc.) are not that much respected any more. It is also due to the fact that we are more easily detected as our traits have become more well known. Laws designed to "protect us" and provide insurance coverage for autism treatment means that insurance companies refuse to write policies for autistic people. I think things will only get better for us when people understand us for who we are rather than some textbook description about us.


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