Aspergers and low intelligence?

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My own performance IQ (or perceptual-organizational index score more accurately since the dichotomy of VIQ/PIQ is no longer used on the new WAIS tests) was 79 on the most recent WAIS IQ test I took a few months ago. My Verbal comprehension index score on this same test was 136 though. My performance IQ, while always substantially lower than my verbal IQ, has been anywhere from borderline (this latest test was my lowest PIQ/POI score ever...though I scored 82 on another one which is still in the borderline range) to high average at 111. All these tests were professionally-administered by psycholgists or neuropsychologists.

I wouldn't worry about these IQ scores too much. They can tell you little more about your "intelligence" beyond how you performed on a particular test which measures a narrow range of skills (and they don't even flawlessly measure the few skills that they're supposed to measure...especially when it comes to testees on the spectrum) on a particular day.

I have taken IQ tests repeatedly throughout my lifetime and most scored in the low to mid 80's. All I have is an associate degree and I was lucky in school. Thank God for multiple choice tests! Most teachers were easy going and hardly gave out homework and certainly no essay questions on tests. And this was college! This is why I scored in mostly A and B levels in college. Also I am a good guesser. I really don't consider myself smart at all. In fact I see myself as the opposite of being intelligent based on my general knowledge of many subjects and my ability to use that knowledge. Sometimes I can barely do simple math. My vocabulary outside of the medical world is basically at a 3-4th grade level. I am very happy that I did so well in college but in the classes that actually required brainpower, I didn't do as hot. I took German class and I struggled even in the most basic things. I didn't understand how to form sentences properly because of the different "cases" they use. It is different from English. During the auditory exercises, sometimes the teacher would write in my paper (we had to listen to a tape and answer questions in German) "Can't you do better?" Then there was the Oceanography class. I scored the lowest out of the entire class for most tests. Amazingly because of the labs and we worked with a team I ended up with a "B" in that class.... somehow. The one class that I was able to show my "intelligence" was the weather class. Because I was in flight school around 9/11 I had to take weather there as well and also I watched the weather channel all my life (except now because of the Internet) so even before entering the class I was far ahead of the rest of the class. This is why in this class I scored the highest in tests. I also was in remedial classes in college because I scored so low on the entrance exam. (not an SAT though I would have completely failed that) I had to take the lowest math, near the lowest English, and other low classes. In video games that has puzzles in them most of the time I have to cheat to figure them out. When people first meet me they think I am a "genius" because the way I talk about medical knowledge and psychology. Suddenly I shift outside that subject (my obsession) and then I sound like a complete idiot. I also know someone who is Asperger's who did something dumb. He is now on the streets because of his girlfriend. I won't go into that here because I don't want him to find out.

FireBird wrote:

Whatever can ultimately be said about my own "intelligence"....i've been accused of being a "genius" all my life by countless people. I have very little in the way of medical knowledge, but I do know quite a bit more about psychology.

The neuropsychologist who recently tested me made the following comments on my neurocognitive evaluation report:

"It is noteworthy that this individual has researched his condition extensively. He is quite knowledgeable about psychology, neuropsychology and assessment. He uses very technical jargon when describing his problems. For instance, he states that his "free recall" is terrible whereas his "cued recall is better". He describes problems with multitasking. He believes that he has a nonverbal learning disability".

He told me I know more about psychology/neuropsychology than any other non-psychologist he's ever met.


People see how I perform at the game show "Jeopardy" and they assume i'm a genius too. I usually beat everyone who watches it with me and I even beat the contestants much of the time. Jeopardy has much in common with the "Information" subtest on the WAIS IQ tests. I always score somewhere in the 90-something percentile on the information subtest and it's always been my highest subtest score on the WAIS tests.

Ask me to do simple algebra or do anything mechanically more difficult than screwing in a lightbulb and you'll see how much of a "genius" I am.

Exactly, you can be a genius in some areas and totally dumbs in others. Many people are like that and no IQ can really tell you whether you are intelligent or not. My best friend is gifted yet she is not intelligent, she lives through statistics without realizing that she is not a statistic number but an individual and that statistics will not determine her life, she gives her parents's point of view on politics and think they are always right because they have some basis in economy, she is not very realistic and only wishes to be popularn she is impulsive, never happy, makes promises she does not keep because social life means "being loved and making compliments" to her. And while she succeeds at school and in maths, she does not understand poetry (she analyzes the title, that's all) and have a tendency to ask "stupid questions".
She has a great social life however, though it is not what she would have loved to have, she has a lot of people around her (and does not realize that).

On the other hand, I have a friend whose IQ is under 100 and she is very realistic, logical, rational, she is very intelligent, she analyzes literature, society, have learned a lot about psychology, know her emotions and personality very well, she is pretty much into introspection and this helps her understand the world better and she does not believe in illusions, but she has no social life.

In a way, they are both intelligent, and everyone could be considered as being intelligent in a way. I think that we all tend to value a form of intelligence more than another. It has nothing to do with successµ. I do well academically but I suck when I must clean the house or help someone who is injured.

Some people think I am a genius, I actually feel totally ret*d (and I am sure that my IQ is not high, except perhaps for my VIQ, but I have no official results, only assumptions from teachers because of tests and the results were never truly the same). I think that my friend is a genius, but she feels ret*d in some areas too. It would be ridiculous to say that neither or us are intelligent, but we are not intelligent in everything and nobody is.

Not being naturally equipped for math or science does not make one of low intelligence.

I've been to college, fat lot of good it did me.

I struggle to do school, it doesn't let me work in the way I find natural. I am not stupid. I learn 500% more when I can self teach, finding my own materials to work from.

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Can you define: appaling attention span?

This is very interesting to me. I posted a similar thread a couple of weeks ago about my 5 yr old son who tested very low on his IQ test. He seems to have so many Aspie characteristics, but he scored 65 on the IQ test which would make it seem as though he is borderline mentally ret*d. Maybe I am biased, but from my observations of my son, he is definitely not mentally ret*d. I know that IQ tests aren't always accurate at such a young age, so I just don't really think it lines up. I just think that for whatever reason, he just didn't really want to do the test, or he wasn't totally clear on what he was supposed to do. He has dyspraxia and auditory processing issues. My son speaks in full sentences, he was potty trained at 4 yrs, he feeds himself, and is almost dressing himself. He knows all of his letters, numbers, shapes and colors,(he knew all of these before 2 yrs old.), his memory is off the charts. He remembers the names of people we met over 2 yrs ago. I am not saying he is a genius at all, but I also don't think he is mentally ret*d.

Intelligence is the cognitive ability to adapt, to take whatever problem you have and figure out away to solve it. Stupidity is the inability to solve problems and the tendency to create problems or make problems worse. People with aspergers have trouble adapting to social situations and solving social problems but overall they can still be intelligent and successful if they can figure out a way to minimize their weaknesses and exploit their strengths.

Success at formal education doesn't necessarily reflect everything about a person's intelligence. Alot of that has to do with a number of factors, including social motivation, ability to be comfortable in ones environment, upbringing, attention span, priorities, not to mention financial situation (in public school if a parent can afford to divert money to things like music, clubs, tutoring, prep schools. For those college bound, can they afford to focus on school only, or are they having to work full time to cover both school and other expenses?).

I did some college after high school. The reason I wasn't so successful wasn't because I was stupid. I was working full time to pay for my books and classes among many other expenses. I also didn't want to be a buden on my parents. My only two days off were spent all day in school. Some people have the energy and motivation to make that kind of scenario work. I didn't. I was stressed from all the new people and routines at work. I was tired and unwell. I kept falling asleep during classes. I stopped turning in homework and eventually started missing classes. I needed time to myself, quiet time, away from people. I need that to function. Though I was doing well enough on most of my tests, some of my teachers dropped me because of my poor attendance. So I took fewer classes each semester. I felt like I was spending everything I earned just on books, but was getting nowhere. So I stopped. I guess that was a bad move, but I just don't think I can do both. If I can go to school and just focus on school, fine. But I don't have the money and student loans are a joke, especially now. Mabe one day I can figure a way to make it happen.

I am pretty sure this could lower is score, as well as the fact that he may have not really cared about it and did not answer properly because he did not want to concentrate on this task.

I am supposedly incapable of mental calculation without using my fingers to counut but I used to make divisions in my head and I can calculate pretty quickly when I want to. (But still cannot understand math problems).

His disorders may have an impact on the way he understands the questions. I have been diagnosed with dyspraxia though I used to think about dyslexia and it seems that my dyslexic characteristics are the consequences of my dyspraxia for example (I can read easily in my head, makes almost no mistakes though I am a slow reader but when I have to read aloud, I struggle and my doctor think it has more to do with speech problems than reading), it may not be the same but many things can affect the results.

As long as he has no real delay, which does not seem to be the case at all, the results mean nothing.

Furthermore, the questions can be interpreted differently most of the time. In logic tests for example, you can see the problem in at least two different way and still give a logical answer (according to reality or to what we are expected to answer), the problem is that only a form of intelligence is accepted. (Even though most logic tests are not very logical, just because someone is greedy and that all politicians are greedy does not mean someone is a politician but I was once expected to say that instead of "he may be a politician because he is greedy.")

People with disorders cannot really have their IQ tested because they do not think the way most people do. And still, I do believe that no one resolve a problem the same way.

What you're describing here is nearly textbook Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is unfortunately quite common (and undiagnosed). For a great example in the media, look at Rod Blagojevich. The guy is caught on camera engaging in blatant corruption, yet he's not only sincerely convinced that he can talk his way out of it but thinks he's going to make a political comeback. Read some of his quotes, they're so crazy you'll wonder how this guy ever got elected in the first place. I worked for a guy that almost certainly had NPD as well, I think the give away is that they always think they're the smartest guy in the room despite all evidence to the contrary, their powers of denial can be quite amazing actually.

@foreveryoung: Not been able to handle college, particulary while autist/asperger, don't mean you lack intelligence. Myself I'm not able to, beside be smarter that average. (For some things, at least.)

Maybe you should denounce him after all... You might not have proof, but maybe it could lead the police to found them once they know they should check about this guy.

Tollorin wrote:

There's nothing to check....he simply made the remarks in question one night when he was drunk. The police would laugh me out of the precinct. I mean there are many other things about him which make me wonder if he really was telling the truth. At any rate....no investigation would occur solely based upon a few claims he made to me one night while he was drunk. Needless to say....I don't even have a way proving he made these claims in the first place.

I'm pretty sure I've talked with people on this forum with a similar story to yours. I wasn't the best in school either (I wouldn't say that I'm anywhere near a genius). I'm terrible with maths. I enjoyed biology but wasn't good at preparing for the exams. I'm doing well at college, but it's stressful. I don't think I would be where I am if it wasn't for all of the support I got throughout my life (particularly in my education). I'm aiming to get a degree, so I need to work really really hard (of course).

I would say that for those aspies who are geniuses and/or are simply able to manage school and/or university is that they have found a niche that has protected them from being exposed to the pressures of life....or something like that. I can't speak for everyone.

Also, the title of this thread is inaccurate. Just because people find academic subjects difficult or find that they cannot manage their classes, it doesn't mean that they have "low intelligence". There are many other factors to such an issue and I hope that you don't think of yourself as stupid just because you found your education difficult.