Is autism the opposite of schizophrenia?
I think I can kind of make this theory work a little.
I think we could fit these two different conditions into the old 'Appolonian vs. Dionysian' framework; The 'rigidity' of autism and the 'chaotic' nature of schizophrenia as opposites.
Appollo: male - reason - order - rigidity - responsibility - systematic - autism
Dionysus: female - emotion - chaos - fluidity - freedom - spontaneous - schizophrenia
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Soooo...
Wogaboo, I guess you're not telling?
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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...
Well this fits perfectly with the theory I'm promoting because women are more intuitive than men, so if schizophrenia is extreme female brain, such brains should be extremely intuitive. By contrast, men are more logical, so autism should be hyper-logic.
Not all aspies lack intuition. I've always been intuitive (other people have told me this).
Just because you're autistic does not mean you will manifest all the traits of autism, it just means you'll manifest most of them. Psychologists like to say that autistics have no imagination. If so, this would fit the theory because schizophrenia is the opposite of autism, because schizophrenics have too much imagination.
Wogaboo, I guess you're not telling?
No, I'll tell. Just as schizophrenics are more delusional than the general population (hear voices, see ghosts), believe people on TV are talking to them), autistics should be LESS delusional than the general population. The poll was designed to test if that is true.
Just because someone is diagnosed with something doesn't mean they have it. The people who have been diagnosed with both conditions may all be examples of mistakes made in the diagnostic process.
I agree there are misdiagnoses every day. It seems to me from this statement though, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you're basing a lot of your theory on misdiagnosis being the norm.
If you begin with that premise, you are essentially throwing every rulebook out the window, in which case you can pretty easily concoct just about any theory you want to.
I see your point. Obviously, in order for a theory to be scientific, you need some kind of empirical verification and I have to be careful not to rationalize away any inconvenient facts as "misdiagnosis". But at the same time, we shouldn't put too much faith in the diagnostic process because for years schizophrenia and autism were confused and I don't know if the method psychologists use to diagnose people is scientific.
Wogaboo, I guess you're not telling?
No, I'll tell. Just as schizophrenics are more delusional than the general population (hear voices, see ghosts), believe people on TV are talking to them), autistics should be LESS delusional than the general population. The poll was designed to test if that is true.
Ah.
That old argument again. Well, I'm tired and hungry, and really don't have time for what's about to happen here, so...
See ya.
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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...
Anyways, the fact that they can co-exist goes against the theory that they are "opposites". In fact there are some overlapping symptoms. For instance, people with schizophrenia often have intense obsessions just like people with AS. The difference is AS obsessions don't involve delusional thinking or paranoia.
My own personal theory is that schizophrenia is a type of hyper-intuition, i.e. the same subconscious brain mechanism that's responsible for making deep intellectual insights and seeing connections in the world goes overboard. The opposing brain mechanism that's responsible for keeping these subconscious connections in check stops working. The end result is that you have so much intuition that your subconscious starts to make connections between things that aren't quite related in reality, or at least not totally consistent to an outside observer. The brain begins to operate on a kind of dream-like logic where the boundary between the inner world and the outer world get blurred.
Nice paradigm M.^
O.P. Some of my folks were D'xed with paranoid schizo. and they may or may not have been on the ASD spectrum, but I think any correlations between autism and "schizo", a "polarization" between them, is incidental and coincidental .
ASD folks have an inherent different neurology ( via imaging studies) , to where schizophrenia is an "onset," and this atrophies certain systems of the brain; "dopamine" is over stimulated and this has a secondary effect on antagonizing " brain serotonin".
A 100 % neurotypical becomes psychotic from brain damage , give ECT and Haldol( or Thorazine) and a lot of this (or most of it) in these cases , "lifts".
Edit to add: These drugs inhibit excessive dopamine.
Last edited by Mdyar on 31 Aug 2010, 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just because someone is diagnosed with something doesn't mean they have it. The people who have been diagnosed with both conditions may all be examples of mistakes made in the diagnostic process.
My opinion also.
ASD and schizophrenia are very similar conditions and also rare conditions. It is much more probable that, at some moment, the symptoms of one of the conditions could mimic the symptoms of the other (note that pre-morbid schizophrenia, schizoid PD and Asperger Syndrom are largely identical in external symptoms) than the same individual develop both the conditions (it is possible, but it will be rare).
In schizophrenia there is loss of contact with reality, in particular in the form of hallucinations and delusions. In Autistischen Psychopathen though, contact with reality is merely narrowed, not lost. Asperger expresses this contrast through the words psychotisch versus psychopathisch.
Also, in schizophrenics a process can be observed over time in the form of a progressive loss of contact with reality and destruction of the personality. The Autistischen Psychopathen on the other hand are stable, and those with sufficient intelligence often learn to adapt to some degree to the demands of society via the way of the intellect as they grow up. Only in rare cases do they develop psychosis.
Asperger also observed no above-average occurrence of schizophrenia in the families of autistic children, so that genetically the conditions appear to have nothing to do with each other; This however was not conclusive.
Comment
Although only a few percent of those diagnosed with Asperger's Disorder develop schizophrenia later on, this is still a small multiple of the frequency of that illness in the general population. Having Asperger seems to double the risk of becoming schizophrenic. And, of those with schizophrenia, fairly many would have satisfied the criteria for Asperger before the onset of their illness. It appears that the premorbid stage of some forms of schizophrenia is or resembles an Aspergoid condition.
It can however still be observed that Asperger's Disorder (or autism, for that matter) and schizophrenia do not tend to aggregate together within families. It can not be said at this point if and to what degree these disorders are genetically linked.
http://www.paulcooijmans.com/asperger/a ... rized.html
(...)
It can however still be observed that Asperger's Disorder (or autism, for that matter) and schizophrenia do not tend to aggregate together within families.
http://www.paulcooijmans.com/asperger/a ... rized.html
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m17225778522m845/
CockneyRebel
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At least, Asperger's Syndrome and Schizotypal Personality Disorder (a disorder very frequent with close relatives of schizophrenics) seems very similar:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17149668
Well that's bad news for the theory I'm promoting. If the autistic spectrum is the opposite of the schizo spectrum, then the two questionaires should be NEGATIVELY correlated. On the other hand I don't know the quality of the questionaires used. A lot of these questionaires ask questions like "do people find you odd?". People will find both autistics and shizo types odd, but perhaps for OPPOSITE reasons, so on the surface the two traits may seem positively correlated, but in actuality, they might be negatively correlated. More research needed, perhaps using more scientific tests.
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