The E-Word
Ichinin
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Joined: 3 Apr 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,653
Location: A cold place with lots of blondes.
I beg to differ:
Social or emotional reciprocity is not necessary a lack of empathy. Not understanding emotions is NOT a lack of empathy. Not knowing how to respond to a situation where someone want to be hugged, or not wanting to hug that person because touching others feels creepy is not a lack of empathy. That's a big f*****g difference right there!
And as you also point out later on in your post - it is only ONE criteria that can be left out. It is rare for an individual to show all the symptoms of a condition, but people in general are, as we all know f*****g morons and ASSume that everyone is like <insert dumb hollywood stereotype here>.
As for that other site you linked to, they made the link to empathy - Neither DSM-IV or ICD10 mentions empathy at all. There is only a lack of social and emotional reciprocity. Not a lack of empathy. Period.
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"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring" (Carl Sagan)
Thanks for clearing that up for me, momsparky. I can be difficult due to my tendency to take everything literally. What people may not understand is that alot of people can have some AS traits. Then they read about it, and assume that the syndrome describes them, which is self-diagnosis. What they may not know is that to be labeled AS, you need to be showing many traits, some of which are very subtle and specific. It takes a long time of being observed to see all this. Medical professionals are very careful to be certain that the diagnosis applies to a patient because of the implications of the label that comes with AS. The disorder has to have a significant, permanent, long term impact on social functioning and other problem areas in life. Thats why it is a very rare (1 in 5,000-10,000) disorder. Many people, in the range of 1 in 200 people will demonstrate traits that place them somewhere in the mild range of the spectrum, but that does not mean that they have AS. AS patients are a more severe form of so-called high funtioning autism, and it impacts our lives in complex and significant ways.
sartresue
Veteran

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 70
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism
Empathological topic
I sometimes think NTs fake empathy. They can read the facial emotions just fine, and tell the other person what s/he wants to hear.
If I am sad in public (I try to hide any emotions just in case, but if a few get through) I do not want strangers coiming up to me to offer "empathy."
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Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind
Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory
NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo
As a few other people have mentioned, we want to feel empathy, and we do give a rip about what our friends are feeling, but it's almost impossible to read between the lines. Revelation of human emotion is a very complicated issue involving body language, tone distortion, and several other factors. How do NTs do it?
nick007
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Joined: 4 May 2010
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Posts: 28,184
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in capitalistic military dictatorship called USA
I just looked up the word Empathy in the Webster dictionary & it says
1~ the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it (huh
2~ the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this
If this is the definition that we use; I think lots of Aspies do lack empathy But different people think empathy means different things & I think that is the point of this post
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"I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem!"
"Hear all, trust nothing"
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ru ... cquisition
I beg to differ:
Social or emotional reciprocity is not necessary a lack of empathy. Not understanding emotions is NOT a lack of empathy. Not knowing how to respond to a situation where someone want to be hugged, or not wanting to hug that person because touching others feels creepy is not a lack of empathy. That's a big f***ing difference right there!
And as you also point out later on in your post - it is only ONE criteria that can be left out. It is rare for an individual to show all the symptoms of a condition, but people in general are, as we all know f***ing morons and ASSume that everyone is like <insert dumb hollywood stereotype here>.
As for that other site you linked to, they made the link to empathy - Neither DSM-IV or ICD10 mentions empathy at all. There is only a lack of social and emotional reciprocity. Not a lack of empathy. Period.
All obvious anger and unnecessary expletives aside, if you read enough of my posts, you will eventually learn I do not think they are the same thing. But that isn't the point. Emotional reciprocity is, in most people, the demonstration of empathy. Without that demonstration, empathy, because it isn't clearly evident, is easily mistaken to not be there at all.
It's the fact that it is there as "emotional reciprocity" in the DSM that people confuse the issue. That's where they are getting it from. THEY think it's there. And it IS often equated with empathy all over the place.
They are not equal, but they ARE linked.
Wassamatta? Can't read my mind? Well dammit, I'm an Aspie, and I expect you to.
And if I'm being rude in pointing out my understanding to you, then maybe you should look at the tone of your own post for the source. Rudeness gets as rudeness does. Now go eat a bar of soap.
(I'll be darned. I just reciprocated your emotion!

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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...
the_leezard
Butterfly

Joined: 31 Aug 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 11
Location: near charlote, nc from charleston (chucktown) sc usa
i wouldn't say i have empathy for others but i have taught my self to think if that was my mom or sister or brother would i want someone to do that to them but works best when i think would i want them to do that me. so is that empathy i taught my self like i wouldn't want i to happen to me. it helped me learn a conchins. (sorry if i spell bad by i read/spell by the way the word looks when i rember seeing it) i used to be "cruel" till i learned to think would i want that to be me. so i guess people with AS can have empathy/conchins we just have trouble learning it and not as easy to learn as other people
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Some of the greatest mind are understood by the least.
No worries - it's not just AS making communication difficult here, it's also that it is difficult to judge exactly what someone means when you're on the internet.
It's really for another topic, but I have begun to wonder if the "spectrum" encompasses all of humanity - not meaning that everyone is autistic, but meaning that there is a completely neurotypical end and a profoundly disabled autistic end and all kinds of shades and combinations in between. I also wonder (especially as someone parenting a child on the spectrum) what effect environment has; I wonder if the more famous and successful people who have been labeled as having Asperger's characteristics simply have a less severe version of the disorder, or if they have found better coping skills or both (and if they have, I sure wish they'd let us all know!)
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