15 Oct 2010, 9:58 am
15 Oct 2010, 10:15 am
15 Oct 2010, 10:24 am
...to always be honest?
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL! 
15 Oct 2010, 10:35 am
MrXxx wrote:
...to always be honest?
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
Because the honest answer often hurts people's feelings, or if it doesn't, it's the kind of answer that COULD have hurt that person's feelings and therefore they will be angry or upset because they will think that you INTENDED to hurt their feelings or just didn't care about their feelings. So if they're not offended by what you said about their weight, for example, they'll be offended by the fact that you decided to say it.
This part has long been clear to me, the part I can't explain is the reason exactly why certain statements hurt people's feelings (when most of the time you're telling someone something they must already know anyway, or if they don't could often benefit from knowing, or things that it doesn't make sense to be upset about, like having bags under the eyes that are only temporary anyway), and how to predict accurately when someone wants an honest answer. As a general rule, don't tell people things about themselves that are seen as bad ways to be, e.g. ugly or overweight or boring. The exceptions to the rule are trickier to work out, but it doesn't matter so much if you don't know them.
Last edited by roseblood on 15 Oct 2010, 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
15 Oct 2010, 10:37 am
MrXxx wrote:
...to always be honest?
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I think this depends on how truthfulness is valued. Is truthfulness ALWAYS to be more highly valued than not being truthful? If you were hiding a refugee in your attic and the death squad pounds on your door asking if you have refugees in your attic, the truth would result in both you and the refugee being executed.
ALWAYS telling the truth becomes a trap that does not address the complexities of the real world.
Having said this, I have a great deal of difficulty not saying the factual truth to a direct question. "Do these pants make me look fat?" is a death sentence. I know that a truthful answer can be a disaster yet I find it almost impossible not to be completely honest. So I find some other way to say that they don't look so good. Maybe - "I like the black ones better".
15 Oct 2010, 10:39 am
These are ones I actually had to have explained to me. I could not figure them out on my own. Some are "rules" that even many NT's don't know the reason for, but simply accept blindly.
jc6chan wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I can answer the money one. I think it's because someone could snatch it right out of your hand and there goes your money.
I never thought it was inappropriate, I was told to put it away because someone could steal it from me. My ex once snatched 20 bucks out of my hand to show me how easy it is. But why call it inappropriate than risky thing? Beats me.
I never thought it was inappropriate, I was told to put it away because someone could steal it from me. My ex once snatched 20 bucks out of my hand to show me how easy it is. But why call it inappropriate than risky thing? Beats me.
Someone can snatch your money everytime you go buy something and pay with cash. An example of this is during Chinese New Years when I get red pocket money. I was at a restaurant (for a family gathering meal) and I was checking out how much money I got and my mom was like "don't flash the money in public".
This actually has to do more with thieves seeing how much you have, following you, and getting attacked for it later when no one is around. It also has to do with never trusting people who are with you. I actually HAVE had money disappear from my home after neighbors who visited frequently saw how much I had and where I kept it.
roseblood wrote:
Can someone please explain why it bothers people so much when I want to keep my perfectly clean, dry coat on indoors, in my parents' house where I live (I do understand that when you're a guest in someone ELSE'S house, keeping your coat on could signal that you would like to be able to leave again quickly) instead of changing into something else to keep warm? When it gets the job done just as well?
If you live alone, who's going to notice or care? If you live with others, even though it's home, it "feels" like a person with their coat on is about to leave any minute. It's a little disconcerting for those who live with you. I did this once recently because I was cold and couldn't find anything but my coat, and my own kids kept asking where I was going. And they are all on the spectrum!
roseblood wrote:
Also, if there are no completely dry towels to dry something with, including my hands, what's wrong with using my clothes, as long as I don't crease them up? It's only water!
This one I learned from my ex wife who used to work for a dry cleaner for years. Water on most fabrics is not a problem, but it will permanently stain some fabrics. Dry cleaners will almost always discourage using water to remove stains because it sets the stain in sometimes badly enough that even they can't get rid of it. Most of the time though, it's no big deal and dries out invisibly, but it does look rather silly in the meantime if you're in public.
Especially if you splash sink water on your crotch!
15 Oct 2010, 10:44 am
wavefreak58 wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
...to always be honest?
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I think this depends on how truthfulness is valued. Is truthfulness ALWAYS to be more highly valued than not being truthful? If you were hiding a refugee in your attic and the death squad pounds on your door asking if you have refugees in your attic, the truth would result in both you and the refugee being executed.
ALWAYS telling the truth becomes a trap that does not address the complexities of the real world.
Having said this, I have a great deal of difficulty not saying the factual truth to a direct question. "Do these pants make me look fat?" is a death sentence. I know that a truthful answer can be a disaster yet I find it almost impossible not to be completely honest. So I find some other way to say that they don't look so good. Maybe - "I like the black ones better".
A lie is a lie. No one has to answer any questions. There are ways of not answering that don't require lying.
In the example of harboring a fugitive: Do you really believe that a totalitarian regime would believe you even if you lied? If they want to know if there's someone in the house, they're going to look whether you like it or not.
"Do these pants make me look fat?" I don't answer questions like that. My wife, and everyone that knows me knows better than to ask me "loaded questions" like that. I've made sure they know. I make sure everyone who knows me knows not to ask me questions if they don't want honest answers.
15 Oct 2010, 10:56 am
Thanks very much MXxx 
15 Oct 2010, 11:01 am
MrXxx wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
...to always be honest?
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I think this depends on how truthfulness is valued. Is truthfulness ALWAYS to be more highly valued than not being truthful? If you were hiding a refugee in your attic and the death squad pounds on your door asking if you have refugees in your attic, the truth would result in both you and the refugee being executed.
ALWAYS telling the truth becomes a trap that does not address the complexities of the real world.
Having said this, I have a great deal of difficulty not saying the factual truth to a direct question. "Do these pants make me look fat?" is a death sentence. I know that a truthful answer can be a disaster yet I find it almost impossible not to be completely honest. So I find some other way to say that they don't look so good. Maybe - "I like the black ones better".
A lie is a lie. No one has to answer any questions. There are ways of not answering that don't require lying.
In the example of harboring a fugitive: Do you really believe that a totalitarian regime would believe you even if you lied? If they want to know if there's someone in the house, they're going to look whether you like it or not.
"Do these pants make me look fat?" I don't answer questions like that. My wife, and everyone that knows me knows better than to ask me "loaded questions" like that. I've made sure they know. I make sure everyone who knows me knows not to ask me questions if they don't want honest answers.
This is a classic example of literal thinking.
What makes literal thinking 'correct' thinking? What right do I have to impose my thinking patterns upon others - especially when I feel they have no right to impose their patterns on me?
15 Oct 2010, 11:02 am
roseblood wrote:
Thanks very much MXxx
NP. Keep in mind though that I am fully aware it's often not as simple as I put it. For me though, I lie so badly, the few times that I have chosen to do it, the lie has always been exposed, no matter how minor it was.
I've just found that no matter what the situation is, it's just not worth the trouble it causes.
I won't lie to you now and say that I never ever lie. Only that whenever I do lie, I pay for it with anxiety from knowing that sooner or later the truth will be known. Because of that my "moral compass" tells me never to do it at all.
15 Oct 2010, 11:04 am
15 Oct 2010, 11:07 am
wavefreak58 wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
...to always be honest?
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I've never received an "honest" answer to this question. Every explanation I have heard involves explaining that dishonesty is "sometimes okay."
BULL!
I think this depends on how truthfulness is valued. Is truthfulness ALWAYS to be more highly valued than not being truthful? If you were hiding a refugee in your attic and the death squad pounds on your door asking if you have refugees in your attic, the truth would result in both you and the refugee being executed.
ALWAYS telling the truth becomes a trap that does not address the complexities of the real world.
Having said this, I have a great deal of difficulty not saying the factual truth to a direct question. "Do these pants make me look fat?" is a death sentence. I know that a truthful answer can be a disaster yet I find it almost impossible not to be completely honest. So I find some other way to say that they don't look so good. Maybe - "I like the black ones better".
A lie is a lie. No one has to answer any questions. There are ways of not answering that don't require lying.
In the example of harboring a fugitive: Do you really believe that a totalitarian regime would believe you even if you lied? If they want to know if there's someone in the house, they're going to look whether you like it or not.
"Do these pants make me look fat?" I don't answer questions like that. My wife, and everyone that knows me knows better than to ask me "loaded questions" like that. I've made sure they know. I make sure everyone who knows me knows not to ask me questions if they don't want honest answers.
This is a classic example of literal thinking.
What makes literal thinking 'correct' thinking? What right do I have to impose my thinking patterns upon others - especially when I feel they have no right to impose their patterns on me?
None. And neither do I. I am simply describing what my pattern of thinking is. I am often told by others that it's not appropriate. I don't accept that, but I don't impose my thinking on others either, though I do not like BEING lied to, even in minor situations. I'd much rather people be honest with me than "stroke" me. What they do with other people is of no concern to me (except when it involves my kids).
Last edited by MrXxx on 15 Oct 2010, 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
15 Oct 2010, 11:07 am
MrXxx wrote:
roseblood wrote:
Thanks very much MXxx
NP. Keep in mind though that I am fully aware it's often not as simple as I put it. For me though, I lie so badly, the few times that I have chosen to do it, the lie has always been exposed, no matter how minor it was.
I've just found that no matter what the situation is, it's just not worth the trouble it causes.
I won't lie to you now and say that I never ever lie. Only that whenever I do lie, I pay for it with anxiety from knowing that sooner or later the truth will be known. Because of that my "moral compass" tells me never to do it at all.
I really get what you're saying. I am TERRIBLE at shading the truth. I can often sense when a direct answer is not a good one and have to usually run through some convoluted chain of reasoning in order to come up with some words that are factually true even if not transparently so.
15 Oct 2010, 11:35 am
mikey1138
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: 5 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 194
Location: This Island Earth
15 Oct 2010, 11:55 am
15 Oct 2010, 12:37 pm
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