Do you believe PDD should be a separate diagnosis?

Page 3 of 3 [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

TPE2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,461

06 Jan 2011, 5:56 am

anbuend wrote:
TPE2 wrote:
Perhaps this is the difference between the verbose AS (the type who wants to be social and talks non-stop) and the withdrawn HFA (the social reclusive type).


Aaaack. No. This is what I was describing in my post (those really annoying four steps people take). AS is just autism without delays in speech, cognition, self-help skills, or curiosity in early childhood (but in practice usually just without delays in speech and with IQ above about 70ish). (...)

Absolutely nothing about a difference between "AS" or "HFA" indicates whether a person is social or reserved. Nothing.


From the DSM:

Quote:
Althoug the social deficits in Asperger's Disorder is severe and is defined in same way as in Autistic Disorder, the lack of social reciprocity is more tipically manifest by an eccentric and one-sided social approach to others (e.g., pursuing a conversational topic regardless of others' reactions) rather than social and emotional indifference (...)

In Autistic Disorder, typical social interaction patterns are marked by self-isolation or markedly rigid social approaches, whereas in Asperger's Disorder there may appear to be motivation for approaching others though this is then done in a highly eccentric, verbose, one-sided and insensiteve manner.


http://books.google.pt/books?id=3SQrtpnHb9MC&pg=PA80

The DSM does not say taxatively that people with AS have more desire of social interection than people with Autism (after all, it also says that "[y]ounger individuals [with AS] may have little or no interests in forming frienships") but leans in that direction.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

06 Jan 2011, 8:40 am

TPE2 wrote:
anbuend wrote:
TPE2 wrote:
Perhaps this is the difference between the verbose AS (the type who wants to be social and talks non-stop) and the withdrawn HFA (the social reclusive type).


Aaaack. No. This is what I was describing in my post (those really annoying four steps people take). AS is just autism without delays in speech, cognition, self-help skills, or curiosity in early childhood (but in practice usually just without delays in speech and with IQ above about 70ish). (...)

Absolutely nothing about a difference between "AS" or "HFA" indicates whether a person is social or reserved. Nothing.


From the DSM:

Quote:
Althoug the social deficits in Asperger's Disorder is severe and is defined in same way as in Autistic Disorder, the lack of social reciprocity is more tipically manifest by an eccentric and one-sided social approach to others (e.g., pursuing a conversational topic regardless of others' reactions) rather than social and emotional indifference (...)

In Autistic Disorder, typical social interaction patterns are marked by self-isolation or markedly rigid social approaches, whereas in Asperger's Disorder there may appear to be motivation for approaching others though this is then done in a highly eccentric, verbose, one-sided and insensiteve manner.


http://books.google.pt/books?id=3SQrtpnHb9MC&pg=PA80

The DSM does not say taxatively that people with AS have more desire of social interection than people with Autism (after all, it also says that "[y]ounger individuals [with AS] may have little or no interests in forming frienships") but leans in that direction.

It also doesn't address the fact that you can be both only at different times. Sometimes reserved, sometimes not. The overall idea being the social experience is slightly different for people with AS. It's not the same as it is for others, even if the person with AS doesn't realize this or refutes it entirely.



anbuend
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jul 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,039

06 Jan 2011, 10:20 am

The problem with taking the DSM's word for it is it goes only on the ability to approach people socially and/or respond to social approaches in a way that the average nonautistic person could understand. However, many people who cannot make such approaches or responses actually would want to be social at least some of the time if you asked them. When I talk especially to people who have the most extreme appearance (to most people) of not wanting to be social, one of the biggest problems they describe is loneliness, OR they talk about how various things they were doing all along were social approaches nobody recognized, OR they had been socializing all along in ways people unlike them could not recognize. Sometimes it's also a vicious cycle where even if they make obvious social approaches, others say they can't possibly be social approaches because the person is autistic (and the DSM has its own role in perpetuating that idea). And my own experiences bear out most of those descriptions at different times in my life. Additionally where I happen personally to be on the reserved side I'm still somewhat more social than people expect from my appearance because I'm unable to make approaches usually. (I'm also usually unable to turn others away.)

This is such a common experience among many autistic people that some have an opposite and equally wrong stereotype that it's only AS people who are extremely introverted, whereas autistic people just can't LOOK social. The reality though is that both AS and other autistic people can be both social and nonsocial and that you have to look past appearances and stereotypes (and manuals written entirely on the basis of how things appear to nondisabled people) in order to see that someone from either category can be either social or nonsocial. (Even people who look social aren't always, after all.)

It's almost worse when autistic people fall for these stereotypes and start making little personality-test-like versions of who's autistic and who's AS. (As in I've seen autistic people give each other things like little questionnaires to determine which category you're in.) Even if the DSM were right about tendencies, it wouldn't make it right to label all non-AS autistic people reserved and all AS people social like that. They're talking tendencies not absolutes. But they fall prey to appearances as always.)


_________________
"In my world it's a place of patterns and feel. In my world it's a haven for what is real. It's my world, nobody can steal it, but people like me, we live in the shadows." -Donna Williams


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

06 Jan 2011, 12:42 pm

And, also, I get sidetracked by the adverb/adjective "highly eccentric". What, exactly, does that mean? In regard to conversation. I know what it means in regard to being or doing...but how does one hold a highly eccentric conversation with another?



PunkyKat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 May 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,492
Location: Kalahari Desert

06 Jan 2011, 1:02 pm

No. I think it should be done away with. It's just a way of saying, "I don't know what your child has."


_________________
I'm not weird, you're just too normal.