Link: Myths about Introverts
Kon wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
Introversion awry:
I can be a 'quite shy' person in social settings, and can just feel plain embarrassed in these social environments. I believe I'm this "extra shy" due to dopamine issues (ADD). I cycle between good and poor executive functioning, depending on sleep and stress - my gate changes and my movements are "jerky"-- maybe a little like a mild Parkinson's condition- (low dopamine)- for an analogy. Dopamine and nor -epinephrine are impaired in ADD. I can move into a more confident mode when doing better, implicating a shift in neurotransmitters- (gate goes back to normal).
Too much dopamine runs in the family, though:
My grandmother ( and others) had schizophrenia, and the last I heard, this condition generates too much dopamine, antagonising serotonin receptors with this glut.
I can be a 'quite shy' person in social settings, and can just feel plain embarrassed in these social environments. I believe I'm this "extra shy" due to dopamine issues (ADD). I cycle between good and poor executive functioning, depending on sleep and stress - my gate changes and my movements are "jerky"-- maybe a little like a mild Parkinson's condition- (low dopamine)- for an analogy. Dopamine and nor -epinephrine are impaired in ADD. I can move into a more confident mode when doing better, implicating a shift in neurotransmitters- (gate goes back to normal).
Too much dopamine runs in the family, though:
My grandmother ( and others) had schizophrenia, and the last I heard, this condition generates too much dopamine, antagonising serotonin receptors with this glut.
Just in case someone hasn't seen it and related to this:
Gale, speculated that introverts might engage in a running monologue in the absence of external stimulation. The observed increased blood flow in Broca's area in introverts might be interpreted as biological evidence of"self-talk."The introverts’ pathway is...focused internally; blood flows to the parts of the brain involved with internal experiences such as remembering, solving problems, and planning—a long, complex pathway. This may explain the tendency of introverts to experience what is known as l’esprit de l’escalier (stairway wit)—the frustrating experience of thinking of a clever comeback when it’s too late. The witty remark comes to mind much too tardily to be useful, when one is on the “staircase,” so to speak, leaving the scene. It’s probably why a lot of introverts are writers. They have all the time they need to come up with what they want to say—especially witty comebacks.
In addition to differences in brain pathways accessed, extroverts have a low sensitivity to dopamine—often known as one of the “feel good” neurotransmitters—yet they require large amounts of it. Adrenaline is needed to make more dopamine in the brain; so the more active the extrovert is, the more adrenaline is released and the more dopamine is produced. Dopamine is correlated with movement, attention, alert states, and learning.
Introverts, however, are highly sensitive to dopamine. If their bodies produce too much of it, they feel over-stimulated. An introvert’s dominant pathway uses acetylcholine, which plays a large part in our sleep and dream states. This difference in neurotransmitter sensitivity and production goes so far as to favor which basic parts of our systems are activated: Whereas extroverts are linked to the dopamine/adrenaline, energy-spending, flight-or-fight sympathetic nervous system, introverts are associated with the acetylcholine, energy-conserving, parasympathetic nervous system that relaxes and calms the body. In The Introvert Advantage, Laney has included a fascinating set of diagrams that map the pathways used in the introverted brain vs. the extroverted brain. Laney also describes some quirks of temperament that extroverts might find mystifying or annoying: Introverts may appear glazed or dazed when they’re stressed out, tired, or in groups. They may start talking in the middle of a thought. Introverts have a good memory but they can take a long time to retrieve memories. They can also experience a temporary inability to access things they know quite well, fumbling around to explain a task they perform all the time or forgetting a word they want to use. They might think they told you something when they have only thought it. And they may be slow to react under stress.
http://www.keswickhousepublishers.com/K ... 2C6AA.html
The acetylcholine information is quite useful, and it is the only thing that works for me, btw.
I read that lecithin ( phosphatidylcholine) also works for symptoms of autism . I think it would be worth a try. I take it, and does everything as cited . It's inexpensive enough to experiment.
Great article kon: And I'm better with "stairway wit," now
Mdyar wrote:
Introverts, however, are highly sensitive to dopamine. If their bodies produce too much of it, they feel over-stimulated. An introvert’s dominant pathway uses acetylcholine, which plays a large part in our sleep and dream states. This difference in neurotransmitter sensitivity and production goes so far as to favor which basic parts of our systems are activated: Whereas extroverts are linked to the dopamine/adrenaline, energy-spending, flight-or-fight sympathetic nervous system, introverts are associated with the acetylcholine, energy-conserving, parasympathetic nervous system that relaxes and calms the body. In The Introvert Advantage, Laney has included a fascinating set of diagrams that map the pathways used in the introverted brain vs. the extroverted brain. Laney also describes some quirks of temperament that extroverts might find mystifying or annoying: Introverts may appear glazed or dazed when they’re stressed out, tired, or in groups. They may start talking in the middle of a thought. Introverts have a good memory but they can take a long time to retrieve memories. They can also experience a temporary inability to access things they know quite well, fumbling around to explain a task they perform all the time or forgetting a word they want to use. They might think they told you something when they have only thought it. And they may be slow to react under stress.
http://www.keswickhousepublishers.com/K ... 2C6AA.html
Another thumbs up for an interesting thread.
Found this bit interesting from that link :
Extroverts’ blood flows to the parts of the brain where visual, auditory, touch, and taste sensory processing occurs (but not smell, for some reason—perhaps because olfactory stimuli are so deeply linked with emotion). Their main brain pathway is short and less complicated. It’s geared for action without getting too much thinking involved. The introverts’ pathway is more complicated and focused internally; blood flows to the parts of the brain involved with internal experiences such as remembering, solving problems, and planning—a long, complex pathway.
That description of the complicated pathway in the introvert brain fits very well with my own experience (despite it referring to the physiological pathway rather than experiential). But it describes well how often my brain gets in the way of doing things,. I sometimes can't sort through the mental processes to get somewhere I need to go, figuratively in doing some particular task, starting a book or a film, sorting house stuff, or literally planning to go outside to go somewhere or do something.
When I also have to interact with people and start to speak, think, do all at once, then things get even more tangled. When there are a few people, more difficult still. When there are lots of people, which usually also means lots of external distractions, noises, bright lights, sudden changes in environmental variables (fast traffic etc), then the processing load shoots through the ceiling.
If I were to add in complex / difficult tasks that need concentration, as I would need to for work, then I may as well just present myself at the nearest padded cell for all the sense i'll make. Good job my work demands are separated from the 'outside noisy world and clamouring people' demands !
It's not even like the difficulty of tasks/actions is linked to what the majority would define as difficult, I can often do some difficult things fairly easily, but by contrast what is easy for many are hard for me to do. It's like there's an invisible mass of mental & physical treacle just making it damn well exhausting to achieve.
Edit: I know that can come under 'executive functioning', but it sounded similar to the convoluted introvert pathway so am just postulating
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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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aghogday wrote:
Exercise helped keep it all in order for me; increasing dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, oxytocin, and natural endorphins; while burning off stress hormones. I think it is nature's own natural reward, that kept us moving thousands of years in the search for food. I would imagine a more sedentary way of life, impacts our biological inclinations.
A morning walk often works for me, although I'm not really sure whether it's the exercise itself, the morning sunshine, or just the fact that I'm just getting out of the house early.
I do want to add the rejoinder that the biochem of the brain is just so complicated that what works for one person might not work for another, or perhaps even the same person at different times. This is clearly the case for medications (such as antidepressants), but I think it's also the case for other things such as diet and exercise.
So, I think it's feel and texture, taking a medium step. Seeing how it goes and then taking another medium step, maybe in the same direction, maybe off to the side (I know this might seem patently obvious, but it actually took me a long time to figure it out).
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marshall wrote:
. . Actually I don't even find "parties" stimulating. I find "mingling" with random people tedious and draining at best. Also, I do enjoy actually DOING things with other people. I just don't enjoy standing around in a crowded room talking and sipping wine / beer. THAT is what I call boring and under-stimulating. Unless you want to count stress and anxiety as stimulation.
That's kind of my experience. Gee, can we play a board game, can we throw the nerf football around, can we walk down to the store, can we at least talk about something interesting.
(and I know, if I expect people to be patient with me, I should be patient with them. All the same, I generally find standing around, 'hanging around' to be boring. Funny thing is, sometimes I have tried to be interested in the person's topic. maybe I tried too much and it was stilted and wooden. And then there's just the thing that people are so complicated, myself fully included, that nothing always works)
AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Exercise helped keep it all in order for me; increasing dopamine, serotonin, epinephrine, oxytocin, and natural endorphins; while burning off stress hormones. I think it is nature's own natural reward, that kept us moving thousands of years in the search for food. I would imagine a more sedentary way of life, impacts our biological inclinations.
A morning walk often works for me, although I'm not really sure whether it's the exercise itself, the morning sunshine, or just the fact that I'm just getting out of the house early.
I do want to add the rejoinder that the biochem of the brain is just so complicated that what works for one person might not work for another, or perhaps even the same person at different times. This is clearly the case for medications (such as antidepressants), but I think it's also the case for other things such as diet and exercise.
So, I think it's feel and texture, taking a medium step. Seeing how it goes and then taking another medium step, maybe in the same direction, maybe off to the side (I know this might seem patently obvious, but it actually took me a long time to figure it out).
Sunshine also has an effect on neurochemicals as well as novelty and so many other factors, besides exercise. I agree, one does have to make an effort to find out what works for them.
Mdyar wrote:
I read that lecithin ( phosphatidylcholine) also works for symptoms of autism . I think it would be worth a try. I take it, and does everything as cited . It's inexpensive enough to experiment.
I've decided to try lecithin. Using the Jamieson brand 1,200 mg. I'm skeptical but it seems safe enough to experiment for 3 months. I'm starting at 1 capsule twice daily.
Kon wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
I read that lecithin ( phosphatidylcholine) also works for symptoms of autism . I think it would be worth a try. I take it, and does everything as cited . It's inexpensive enough to experiment.
I've decided to try lecithin. Using the Jamieson brand 1,200 mg. I'm skeptical but it seems safe enough to experiment for 3 months. I'm starting at 1 capsule twice daily.
I hope it works.
That was a very interesting post on the choline's and introversion; it struck an immediate resonance.
But I may be an exception, with some few exceptions, as I found similar but few anecdotal pieces with this as regarding ADD symptoms. It works for someone I know personally with ADD, and it is taken @ 1200 mg and it is triple strength phosphatidylcholine. The thing it does here is provide all stages of sleep without any awakening, and for once she doesn't lie there for hours to fall a sleep and then easily awaken. ( I take two of these and I'm dependent on it - I buy a years worth online. ) PM me if you want.
