I think I might have been wrong...

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29 Aug 2011, 4:19 pm

I am professionally DX'd Gifted/ASD (AKA 2e)

I fit in perfectly with gifted people and always have. They are very accepting of my quirks and many times I am less quirky than many of them.

Fitting in with gifted people does not exclude a person from ASD either.

The lines get very, very fuzzy in this 2e camp so it really is better to speak to a professional that actually does assesments to make a determination.

dougn
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29 Aug 2011, 7:37 pm

How does someone get diagnosed as gifted? Is giftedness a disorder of some sort?

I was considered gifted in school, so I guess I am 2e. Rather amusingly I just read a post on Reddit that mentioned 2e and I was wondering what the heck it was, so thanks for answering that, guys! I thought maybe it meant electrical engineering, or French for "2nd," or ~5.436...

Anyway, most of the other "gifted" kids in school seemed pretty "normal." Just like a random sample of not-blatantly-unintelligent kids. I don't know what their standards for "gifted" were. I think they might have been pretty low. Not that I really know how one measures "giftedness" anyway...

As an adult most of the people I know who seem highly intelligent seem unusual in one way or another, but that's just my unscientific "this person seems really smart" gut instinct. It might just be me being conceited ("this person seems like me so I think they're really smart"). I'm not sure how intelligent I consider myself, anyway.

And if I have ADHD too, does that make me 3e? Can I throw in other stuff and be like... 12e or something? The more e the better?

SammichEater
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29 Aug 2011, 7:41 pm

I still consider myself to be on the BAP. I'm not completely undiagnosing myself just because I read a few things on Google. I guess I should have clarified that. It's only a change in perspective.

In fact, I'd say it hardly even matters at all. It is in no way a life or death situation; all I am seeking is personal knowledge. Even in a hundred years a professional could never make a truly accurate diagnosis. Nobody can, as all of this is really just one huge gray area. There are no absolutes anywhere in the field of psychology. It's possible to keep going around thinking in circles like this forever.

I created this thread with two intentions. One, I was curious to see if there would be a general trend towards having AS. As it has already been discussed, there clearly is. Secondly, I just wanted to throw this into consideration. It's not very often that I find good information on such topics.

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Fnord
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29 Aug 2011, 8:03 pm

marshall wrote:

btbnnyr wrote:

It seems like littlelily and Fnord are creating contention where none exists because they are peeved at anyone who would self-diagnose. Or peeved that people are more interested in giving personal opinions than simply telling someone the obvious "go get a professional diagnosis". Of course, if that was how all people responded to every "do I have it" thread, it would be extremely boring to read.

No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results. I am not saying that a professional diagnosis would always be accurate, or that professional treatment would always be effective. I am saying that being diagnosed and treated by a trained professional is much more accurate and effective than self-diagnosis and self-treatment, and is certainly better than the half-baked opinions of non-professionals with their own prejudices and agendas to advance.

At the very least, if anyone is going to err, then they would be better off to err on the side of caution than simply follow the questionable advice of strangers on a public website that is devoted to people with perceptive disorders and behavioral problems.

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dougn
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29 Aug 2011, 8:18 pm

Fnord wrote:

No ... I'm just concerned that when people diagnose themselves, the next step is self-medication, which often leads to disastrous results.

Self-medication? For something that's not generally treated with medication to begin with?

I have mixed feelings about self-diagnoses. I think I'd be more against them if I had more confidence in professionals. It seems like there are a lot of professionals out there making (or not making) diagnoses who have no idea what they're doing.

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29 Aug 2011, 9:00 pm

I usually believe someone's self-diagnosis if they firmly believe the diagnosis themselves, unless they demonstrate that they have no understanding of ASD. I usually believe someone's doubts about their professional diagnosis if they firmly disbelieve the diagnosis themselves, unless they demonstrate that they have no understanding of ASD. I really do think people know themselves best.

I can never come up with any meaningful responses for "Do I have it or not?" threads though, because I just can't tell from a listing of autistic traits whether someone has ASD. I always answer "I can't tell" unless an explicit description of experiencing the traits in the person's mind is consistent with ASD.

littlelily613
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29 Aug 2011, 9:45 pm

Fnord wrote:

I find it rather sad (but in a non-depressing way) that it ALWAYS seems that when people diagnose themselves with AS, the automatic assumption is that they have AS, and everyone tries to bolster and support that opinion - and it is only an opinion, by the way. People think that they know themselves better than anyone else, and this may be true to some small extent, but their inherent subjectivity will often modify their self-perceptions to fit their chosen "diagnosis" - that is, people tend to focus on and exaggerate symptoms that confirm their self-diagnoses and disregard the symptoms that contradict with what they've already determined is true. Anyway, I am not saying Sammich does or does not have AS. What I am saying that if he is able to function, does not believe he has it, and does not have a diagnosis that he is going against, I cannot see why anyone would try to convince him that he is correct. That makes no sense, in that it would be the opinions of non-professionals trying to give their own diagnoses without ever having that have never examined, or even met SammichEater in the first place.

One of the first principles of science is that you must not fool yourself, or allowed others to fool you - always be skeptical, even of your own opinions. Verify your own opinions with either supporting facts, or with only the opinions of trained professionals, and only after a thorough examination of the facts by that professional.

If he does think that he has difficulty functioning due to traits that could be seen as autistic, even if mildly so, then he should go get a professional evaluation rather than mindlessly follow the opinions of complete strangers on an anonymous public forum, whether those opinions support his own or not.

One of the few times we actually agree with each other! And half of your post sounds vaguely familiar....like an echo of something I once heard....

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littlelily613
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29 Aug 2011, 9:48 pm

btbnnyr wrote:

there does seem to be a general bias towards "You have ASD" on this forum. This appears both when someone asks if they have ASD or when someone doubts their diagnosis, self or professional. But why does this trend exist?

Yep, and I've noticed this since I first started coming here. Support is great, but it doesn't mean that there aren't other possibilities for people's issues out. Support can be given for those other potential labels as well. There are probably a lot more people on here than people realize who think they are autistic but really are not. It's not a big deal; not everyone has to be one of us. :wink:

And autistic or not, if they can relate in some way, they can we all still be one big happy family, yes?

And I have noooo idea why this trend exists, though I am kind of curious.

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littlelily613
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29 Aug 2011, 9:51 pm

purchase wrote:

"probable borderline case"

Wouldn't this be BAP? NOT saying it is...I just thought that in between NT and Autism (that which straddles both worlds...or on the border) was BAP. My first diagnosis was also somewhat vague--not because of my severity level or anything, but because of the particular psych I had gone to see (not very official). I know how frustrating those vague diagnoses can be...

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littlelily613
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29 Aug 2011, 9:57 pm

League_Girl wrote:

Maybe because they see it in themselves? If they say that person doesn't have it or agree he could be wrong, then they are going to have to question their own self diagnoses or DX one or unofficial one. It could be projection. (Am I using the word right?)

A valid point. I really don't see why a person already diagnosed should have to second guess themselves. I do think a person with a self-diagnosis should second guess themself, though because not everyone sees themselves accurately (I know I didn't think I was as "disabled" as I obviously am after listening to the interview between my dad and the diagnostician). I am not saying self-diagnosed people are never right (I was self-dx for years...and I was also correct), just saying that it is an opinion, and not always right (and yes, I know sometimes even psychs get it wrong too, but I think that occurs less often).

I can see what you are saying, but I still disagree with people trying to coerce others into believing they have something that they are doubting....especially when the person in question does not even have a diagnosis....especially since this IS anonymous, and we don't REALLY know each other and how each other truly acts and behaves in certain situations.

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Fnord
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29 Aug 2011, 9:57 pm

littlelily613 wrote:

Fnord wrote:

One of the few times we actually agree with each other! And half of your post sounds vaguely familiar....like an echo of something I once heard....

I plagiarize from only the very best!

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littlelily613
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29 Aug 2011, 10:00 pm

Artros wrote:

most people respond by saying that a number of characteristics fit but that a professional should be consulted for a serious diagnosis. I think that's a very fair response.

I agree that that is a very fair response. I disagree that most people on here respond this way. From the threads I have posted in or read, most people seem to respond with something like, "yep, sounds like Aspergers to me!" and then leave it at that. A few have posted with something like, "that must be Aspergers because it is just like me"--then you click on their profile, and they do not even have a diagnosis. But anyone, most are rather short and sweet agreements that the characteristics do sound like AS, and I see very few attempts to get people to seek a professional opinion.

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btbnnyr
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29 Aug 2011, 10:04 pm

What about other-diagnosing people around oneself? Like when a wife other-diagnoses her husband with ASD? Or when my mother and I other-diagnose my father with ASD? I'm not sure about my father (definitely BAP), but I feel like I shouldn't be trying to do my unnecessary, unsolicited, and covert other-diagnosing of him, but it's very hard to resist the impulses, even though he has never suspected himself of having ASD.

Fnord
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29 Aug 2011, 10:05 pm

littlelily613 wrote:

Artros wrote:

most people respond by saying that a number of characteristics fit but that a professional should be consulted for a serious diagnosis. I think that's a very fair response.

Have you ever heard of "The blind leading the blind"? I think that's a very appropriate judgment here.

littlelily613 wrote:

But anyone, most are rather short and sweet agreements that the characteristics do sound like AS, and I see very few attempts to get people to seek a professional opinion.

That's where folks like us come in...

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littlelily613
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29 Aug 2011, 10:06 pm

marshall wrote:

It seems like littlelily and Fnord are creating contention where none exists because they are peeved at anyone who would self-diagnose.

It seems like you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. I cannot speak for Fnord, only for myself, and I am absolutely not "peeved at anyone who would self-diagnose" since I WAS self-diagnosed for YEARS! I only just got my diagnosis in July, and I have been advocating professional diagnoses a lot longer than that. I also have always said that some people with a self-dx are indeed correct, and some people are not. No, I do not take a self-dx to be at the same level as a professional diagnosis. Why should I? I do not take a self-diagnosis of cancer to be at the same level as a professional one that has been made after extensive testing. And anyway, the original post is about him thinking he DOESN'T have it, so I have not, in anyway, tried to tell him: you can't self-diagnose yourself as Aspergers. In fact, I have posted in many of the same threads as Sammich, and I have NEVER called his "autisticness" into question---HE is the one doing that. So you can get off your pedestal now!

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EQ=8 SQ=93 (Extreme Systemizer)
Alexithymia Quiz=164/185 (high)

matt
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29 Aug 2011, 10:45 pm

kfisherx wrote:

I am professionally DX'd Gifted/ASD (AKA 2e)

I fit in perfectly with gifted people and always have. They are very accepting of my quirks and many times I am less quirky than many of them.

Fitting in with gifted people does not exclude a person from ASD either.

The lines get very, very fuzzy in this 2e camp so it really is better to speak to a professional that actually does assesments to make a determination.

The part that I put in bold is very surprising to me.

I've read that people who are gifted may display some similar characteristics to people on the autism spectrum, but that they tend to be considered socially appropriate by other gifted people. I was professionally evaluated(Is diagnosed the appropriate word?) as gifted when I was in elementary school(and the evaluator actually told my mother that I was unusually gifted), and I was put in gifted classes. I was no more able to socialize with the people in the gifted classes than I was able to socialize with the general education students. When I was younger I was always held distinct from the group(not in a positive way).

Ever since I first heard the description "twice exceptional", I've thought that the description seemed to fit me very well. I try to compare and contrast myself to others to see whether both being gifted and AS fit, but even though I attended the same schools and the same classes with many of the same "gifted" people I don't remember ever having personal discussions with any of them, and don't have a very good understanding of how they interacted with people outside of discussions about the subject being taught.

I often do relatively well discussing a topic I'm knowledgeable about when I'm in a structured educational or business environment but there is no social interaction outside of that structure.

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