Apergian females are normal?

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XFilesGeek
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30 Oct 2011, 10:05 pm

swbluto wrote:

Here's an article that definitely supports my assertion that asperger females are essentially socially normal.

Quote:

The symptoms of Aspergers in adult females and girls are usually displayed in a more subtle manner, which results in missed or incorrect professional diagnoses, a lack of access to special education services and provisions in school, and a greater chance of social and emotional problems in adulthood. Several distinct differences exist in regard to the ways that female kids and male kids with Aspergers behave.

Female kids with Aspergers are not often aggressive when they get frustrated; rather, they tend to be withdrawn and can easily "fly under the radar" in classrooms and other social environments. Girls with Aspergers are also able to express their emotions in a calmer way than their male counterparts. Female kids with Aspergers are often protected and nurtured by their “non-Aspergers” friends, who help them cope with difficult social situations. Acceptance from peers can sometimes mask the issues that these kids have so that they are not recognized by educators and moms/dads. As a result, adults are less likely to suggest psychological and social evaluations for young female Aspies.

Look at that, they're accepted by their non-aspergian friends, their friends protect them and they are in significantly less need of psychological and social help. Contrast that to the typical social outcomes of aspergian males who are bullied and taunted COUPLED with the fact that a fairly neurotypical female said the aspergian female host was essentially normal tells me that aspergian females are essentially normal, in terms of their actual disability's impact on their social life and relationships. Sure, you may quibble about seemingly bright lights and missing nuance sometimes, but that's not really what I'd call a disability that's anywhere near as disabling as what the average autistic male suffers.

Absolutely nothing in that article "proves" this nebulous "social normalcy" you speak of.

Silly post is silly.

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Tuttle
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30 Oct 2011, 10:09 pm

...Of course, I was silly, I didn't realize how fast this thread was moving and edited my post instead of added another one, thinking nobody else would have responded yet.

Good job swbluto, I'm unlikely to respond to this thread again, because I'm barely holding tears in for once again being told how I can't really be autistic and can't really have difficulties because I'm female and for causing me to need to pull up memories I'm trying to keep away from the top of my memory because they are too painful.

swbluto
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30 Oct 2011, 10:11 pm

Tuttle wrote:

Sorry, I didn't mean to say you're not autistic and that you're not experiencing difficulty (I never did, did I?). I'm talking about the average aspie female and if this doesn't pertain to you, then it doesn't.

Last edited by swbluto on 30 Oct 2011, 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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30 Oct 2011, 10:12 pm

swbluto wrote:

Here's an article that definitely supports my assertion that asperger females are essentially socially normal.

Quote:

Look at that, they're accepted by their non-aspergian friends, their friends protect them and they are in significantly less need of psychological and social help. Contrast that to the typical social outcomes of aspergian males who are bullied and taunted COUPLED with the fact that a fairly neurotypical female said the aspergian female host was essentially normal tells me that aspergian females are essentially normal, in terms of their actual disability's impact on their social life and relationships. Sure, you may quibble about seemingly bright lights and missing nuance sometimes, but that's not really what I'd call a true disability like what the autistic males suffer.

Your interpretation makes no sense:

* It says they are less visible, not less affected
* It says they are less likely to receive psychological and social evaluations, it does not say they do not need them.

A lot of neurotypicals are unable to spot autism by looking at it, nor are they authorities on what qualifies as "normal" or otherwise.

From the Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome:

Quote:

The social naïvety of childrenwith Asperger’s syndrome can lead to an unusual form of bullying, described by Gray (2004a) as backhanded bullying. The other child initially appears friendly but subsequent actions are certainly not friendly. An example is provided by Luke Jackson, a teenager with Asperger’s syndrome who has written a self-help guidebook for adolescents with Asperger’s syndrome (L. Jackson 2002). He described how another child approached him with apparently friendly gestures and conversation while his accomplice crouched down on his hands and knees directly behind Luke. The ‘friend’ in front of himthen pushed Luke so he fell backwards over the accomplice, was unable to prevent his fall and hit his head on concrete, resulting in his being concussed.

Nita Jackson’s autobiography provides another example of backhanded bullying.

Quote:

They would approach me – the short, timid fat girl – at break time, saying how guilty they felt for taunting me and asking me to accept a seemingly unopened packet of crisps, can of fizzy drink or bag of chips as a token of apology. They
would stand around while I reached into the bag of crisps (which I suddenly noticed were already open but thought nothingmore of it) or chips, shoved a huge handful into my mouth and chomped…and chomped until I suddenly noticed a
tingling sensation inside my mouth. The tingling sensation grew and before I knew it my whole mouth was burning – the kids had sprinkled the crisps or chips with hellishly spicy curry powder.

But it was the cans of drink that were the worst. The bullies would put ants, worms, maggots or even wasps in the drinks. Fortunately, I never got stung by the wasps, but I did swallow a few ants, maggots and worms. (N. Jackson 2002, p.26)

Several women on this forum have described being bullied in childhood and adulthood, although not necessarily to the point of being given soda cans filled with wasps.

Anyway, that article you mentioned, linked here, isn't exactly a study:

http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2011/02 ... rgers.html

XFilesGeek
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30 Oct 2011, 10:14 pm

swbluto wrote:

Tuttle wrote:

Sorry, I didn't mean to say you're not autistic and that you're not experiencing difficulty. I'm talking about the average aspie female and if this doesn't pertain to you, then it doesn't.

Actually, that's exactly what you said to her.

And I'm still waiting for this earth-shaking evidence that "proves" supposedly "average Aspie females" are "socially normal."

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30 Oct 2011, 10:16 pm

I can't speak for other females on the spectrum, but I think it is all individual. I don't think there is a model ASD girl and a model ASD boy. There are just individuals, and we are all different. I am nowhere near normal or average which is why I have very few friends, absolutely no social life, have difficulty with independence, etc. There are mild males and females who may appear "normal"...whatever that means. But please do not diminish the experience of all females on the spectrum by speculating it is only males who are truly impacted.

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30 Oct 2011, 10:17 pm

swbluto wrote:

Okay, look back this thread:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf157848-0-15.html

There's a sample of "reading the minds eyes" scores and the average aspie females score at the neurotypical average.

Didn't you already post several months ago that there's no correlation between diagnosis and scores on Reading the Mind in the Eyes tests from forum posters?

Further, at least one study has found that NTs don't really score higher than autistic people on that test. Here's some discussion of it:

http://incorrectpleasures.blogspot.com/ ... t-add.html

http://incorrectpleasures.blogspot.com/ ... t-and.html

XFilesGeek
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30 Oct 2011, 10:18 pm

Tuttle wrote:

Yikes.

I'm sorry you got hurt, Tuttle. Bullies suck, especially internet bullies who don't even have the decency to stand within punching-range.

Just keep in mind that Bluto can't even figure out if he's autistic or not, let alone whether someone else is autistic.

Unfortunately, I think the, "Men have it harder. Boo-hoo!" is a hobgoblin that will continue to lurk under Wrong Planet's floor boards for the foreseeable future. Don't let it bum your trip.

Quote:

Didn't you already post several months ago that there's no correlation between diagnosis and scores on Reading the Mind in the Eyes tests from forum posters?

Heh. Yeah, I seem to recall that one, too. Good catch.

Last edited by XFilesGeek on 30 Oct 2011, 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

swbluto
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30 Oct 2011, 10:18 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:

swbluto wrote:

Tuttle wrote:

Sorry, I didn't mean to say you're not autistic and that you're not experiencing difficulty. I'm talking about the average aspie female and if this doesn't pertain to you, then it doesn't.

Actually, that's exactly what you said to her.

And I'm still waiting for this earth-shaking evidence that "proves" supposedly "average Aspie females" are "socially normal."

Well, no, I recognized her difficulties and I never said that she wasn't autistic. But, regardless, I'm sorry if I unintentionally offended anyone -- sometimes, my autism makes me a little emotionally blind and I apologize.

SammichEater
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30 Oct 2011, 10:28 pm

This is a load of crap. Female aspies might be less socially awkward, but that doesn't translate to less autistic.

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dancing_penguin
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30 Oct 2011, 10:31 pm

swbluto wrote:

it's right until proven to be false by whatever hard evidence you or anyone else brings up.

In that case, I'm the Easter bunny!

*runs off into the night laughing maniacally*

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swbluto
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30 Oct 2011, 10:38 pm

I just wanted to say sorry and that, no, this thread wasn't meant to be a joke, I actually did want to explore the comparison between the difficulties that males had versus more seemingly normal females and I thought contrasting the real life experiences of a few posters with other posters was relevant. I wasn't aware that this would hurt people (My autism means I'm more emotionally blind/insensitive than the average female so I'm more predisposed to unintentionally hurt them - how predictable, right?) and I apologize. Anyway, I probably won't be back to this thread as I'm going to wait for things to cool down so we can have a less emotional discussion.

Btw, I think it's pretty clear that some aspergian females are clearly more able to emotionally manipulate others, supporting my observation that aspie females are more socially/emotionally normal, on average, than aspie/autistic males.

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30 Oct 2011, 10:51 pm

Trying to un-biase myself:

The female on the right is as "NT" as they come.

Center: off 'the center' by body language, the down wander from side to side with atypical look.

Alex: some wandering body language - a drift-- and a hard re-center. I think I do this. Otherwise the standard appearance.

LjosalfrBlot
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30 Oct 2011, 10:52 pm

No no no no. I once lived with a girl who had aspergers when I was younger and her case was so hardcore that even I couldn't stand it.
Also, my wife does have aspergers for sure but she's extraordinarily pleasant to be around, despite her awkwardness. You could spot her aspie traits right away, but she's still better than any NT!

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30 Oct 2011, 11:02 pm

Here is how I understand it: no two aspies are the same. In my experience as a female aspie has varied, my primary way of intereacting with people is through my art. I'm able to hold a discussion, do small talk but this is out of politeness. I just say I'm an introvert to most people and prefer to be quiet. You see, females are expected to talk, that is annoying. They think you're weird or something if you're aren't chatty. They think you're even weirder if you don't have female friends, most of mine are male. But this is my experience, everyone grows up in an different enviroment

lasirena
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31 Oct 2011, 12:03 am

dancing_penguin wrote:

swbluto wrote:

it's right until proven to be false by whatever hard evidence you or anyone else brings up.

In that case, I'm the Easter bunny!

*runs off into the night laughing maniacally*

Thankyou for giving me a good laugh out of this 'silly post is silly'

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