Neanderthal theory and hunting

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CrazyCatLord
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20 Feb 2012, 7:48 pm

NarcissusSavage wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

Clumsiness = poor motor coordination. When I'm walking, I sometimes concentrate so much on my feet that I drop the things that I'm carrying. I can't drive a car because I can't coordinate my hands and feet, and I have a tendency to run into things and knock things over. I also have a very slow reaction speed. I doubt that this would be different if I had any special kind of training.

I have naturally poor coordination. Quite bad, really. Most any attempt I've made to do some form of physical activity or maneuver for the first time, or to do so in a dynamic fashion is met with horrible disaster.

BUT, when my movements are static, and can be rehearsed, I am incredibly agile. I use a host of preprogrammed maneuvers to interact and move throughout the day to day activities required of me. Words used by observers to describe my movements have included; graceful, precise, efficient, robotic, preternatural, agile, calculated, conscious. But I'm often described while doing dynamic motions as; clumsy, uncoordinated, slow, etc. I don't have an in between.

I've speculated that others on the spectrum may be similar, but that has no basis in reality, as I've not really discussed this topic before, and haven't met anyone I've known to be on the spectrum in person.

My point though, is that in my own experience, I am only clumsy when I cannot train for the motion in advance. So specialized training in this regard helps me immensely, and it might help you as well.

I've thought about taking dance or martial arts classes, but I'm too socially anxious. I also tried to pick up Iaido when I was younger, but that just led to an expensive obsession with Japanese weapons

I gave up on it after I took off a ceiling lamp with a training katana. Riding a bicycle will probably remain the pinnacle of my physical accomplishments (it took me quite a while to learn that).

Tuttle
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20 Feb 2012, 7:50 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

I gave up on it after I took off a ceiling lamp with a training katana. Riding a bicycle will probably remain the pinnacle of my physical accomplishments (it took me quite a while to learn that).

Kayaks!

Seriously, kayaking, along with irish step dance, is much of why I don't look clumsy, despite actually being clumsy enough that I'll drop a knife on myself while attempting to clean it.

CrazyCatLord
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20 Feb 2012, 7:56 pm

lightening020 wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

Again this is all from NT perception. You me and everyone else here has tried moving, talking, and behaving based on what other people are doing. Not because it is natural.

Cars were invented some 30,000 years after the Neanders went, so it wouldn't be a natural skillset. I think alot of it has to with anxiety, I wasn't a very good driver when I first started. The motor skills I had to work for a long time, and I'm still not the best driver.

It's true that social anxiety and impatient instructors make it even harder to learn things like driving a car. But all basic types of movement don't have to be taught. NTs are never taught to pour a drink into a glass, for example, or to walk with a coffee mug without dropping it.

If some autistics, such as myself, have problems coordinating these simple tasks, I find it unlikely that ASDs would contribute anything to hunting skills. Except perhaps for an obsessive fascination with traps, weapons and animal behavior.

CrazyCatLord
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20 Feb 2012, 8:01 pm

Tuttle wrote:

CrazyCatLord wrote:

I gave up on it after I took off a ceiling lamp with a training katana. Riding a bicycle will probably remain the pinnacle of my physical accomplishments (it took me quite a while to learn that).

Kayaks!

Seriously, kayaking, along with irish step dance, is much of why I don't look clumsy, despite actually being clumsy enough that I'll drop a knife on myself while attempting to clean it.

It might have something to do with sitting down, so that you don't have to coordinate arms and legs. I used to draw a lot and I'm quite skilled at digital photo retouch and design work. As long as I sit on a chair, my hand coordination works just fine. But as soon as I stand on my feet, I turn into a total klutz

rdos
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21 Feb 2012, 3:58 am

I don't regard myself as clumsy either. I'm very good at old time dancing (Waltz, Polka, Hambo). My favorite dances are the one's where you spin very fast (and long). I don't like solo dancing, and I would absolutely not display mating behavior while dancing (strange body moves).

Edit: Additionally, I have a driver license and I drive a lot. Never had any accident or anything either.

Joe90
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21 Feb 2012, 8:08 am

People with Dyspraxia are clumsy, by the way.

XFilesGeek wrote:

Let's see.......

Since being DXed with AS and joining this forum I've been an Indigo Child, a "fox spirit," and now, a caveman.

What next?

*sigh*

I agree. People just believe everything they read. It disturbs me too when I see threads like this popping up, claiming that Autistic people are another different breed of human or animal. It's just another way to make Autistics feel even more seperated from the world than what we really are.

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rdos
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21 Feb 2012, 9:00 am

I like to identify with Neanderthal. It makes me feel special, and most importantly, I can claim that whatever strangeness I do could be pretty natural and functional for a Neanderthal. It allows me to discard tranditional truths as "that's not me, and I'm not disordered for not being like that".

monstermunch
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21 Feb 2012, 10:44 am

Quote:

Well said.

Tollorin
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21 Feb 2012, 12:46 pm

NarcissusSavage wrote:

I built a bow and arrows as a very small child without knowledge specifically how to do so. I just had seen them somewhere and became obsessed with duplicating it, and used only materials found in my backyard, of natural formation. Ie. Tree, plant, rock, etc. It took some time, but the final product was most certainly lethal, and rather accurate. This constituted my typical idea of "play" as a child. I was either attempting to build things, or tearing things apart to learn how they were built.

How have you done that.

To come back to the subject, I'm not patient enough to make a good hunter; and I have no doubt on being asperger.

Neandertal genes who have "survived" are completely scattered through the population by now anyway.

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Ellendra
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21 Feb 2012, 3:40 pm

lightening020 wrote:

What if people on the spectrum actually turned out to be kickass hunters if they learned how and got the chance?

"If"? Some of us are

Tuttle
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21 Feb 2012, 3:55 pm

rdos wrote:

Just because you don't have a trait doesn't mean its not common on the spectrum. Dyspraxia, or other less extreme clumsiness, is incredibly common on the spectrum. The levels of clumsiness that we're describing, truly would make it difficult to hunt with a spear.

rdos
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21 Feb 2012, 5:33 pm

Tollorin wrote:

Neandertal genes who have "survived" are completely scattered through the population by now anyway.

Not so. Assortative mating has kept them together, and especially the traits that relate to assortative mating, communication and social behavior. That's why practically all neurodiversity traits are correlated, and the only way you can explain such a correlation is if those traits have a common origin in another species. It is also why many neuropsychiatric "disorders" that build up neurodiversity are correlated, and why ASDs have genetic correlations on all chromosomes.

Tollorin
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21 Feb 2012, 5:42 pm

rdos wrote:

Tollorin wrote:

Neandertal genes who have "survived" are completely scattered through the population by now anyway.

Not so. Assortative mating has kept them together, and especially the traits that relate to assortative mating, communication and social behavior.

Basically you say that assotative mating kept a bunch of various genes together on human population for THIRTHY THOUSANDS YEARS!! !! !!

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NarcissusSavage
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21 Feb 2012, 6:05 pm

Tollorin wrote:

rdos wrote:

Tollorin wrote:

Neandertal genes who have "survived" are completely scattered through the population by now anyway.

Not so. Assortative mating has kept them together, and especially the traits that relate to assortative mating, communication and social behavior.

Basically you say that assotative mating kept a bunch of various genes together on human population for THIRTHY THOUSANDS YEARS!! !! !!

Not completely together, but together at a higher rate than apart. That would be the explanation for correlation of similar conditions have higher instances of occurring together. This is not a concrete "They are together, and only together" kind of claim, simply that assortative mating "tends" to keep them bunched up. There is obviously a spectrum of neurodiversity, and no one is identical to another. That alone suggests that this is true, as, if there was no correlation between conditions existing together, then we could say the genes were evenly distributed.

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DemocraticSocialistHun
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29 Feb 2012, 5:22 pm

rdos wrote:

...Assortative mating has kept them together, and especially the traits that relate to assortative mating, communication and social behavior. That's why practically all neurodiversity traits are correlated, and the only way you can explain such a correlation is if those traits have a common origin in another species. It is also why many neuropsychiatric "disorders" that build up neurodiversity are correlated, and why ASDs have genetic correlations on all chromosomes.

"ASDs have genetic correlations on all chromosomes" Just ASDs and chromosomes? What about genes on different chromosomes being correlated? And if yes what would (or should) a geneticist or biologist say about the probability that such is evidence of a/some defect(s)? Another reason they should be raisin' hell?

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