Autism <-----> Schizophrenia (Opposites?)

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My flatmate has paranoid schizophrenia so this is an especially interesting topic for me

I think from my personal experience I could argue both points.
On the first impression we are completely opposite. She constantly attributes intentions to people that they definitely don't have. I don't realize they have any intentions at all, especially when they don't state them clearly.
She thinks the flat is completely clean when I see dust in the corners and stains everywhere...

But I think our conditions aren't that different after all.
We both have trouble communicating.
The world is often too much for both of us.
We retreat, feel misunderstood and live in our own worlds.

And it's way easier for me to relate to her than to... average people. That's, when she doesn't have an acute episode. She get's aggressive and threatens me then... But even then, it makes more sense to me than... talking about the kids grades or something like so many other people do...

In a sense, they're supposed to be dumping grounds. Do you consider intellectual disability a "dumping ground" condition? Do you understand the concept of heterogeneity, and why utility demands that some conditions be much more heterogeneous than others?



The concepts of autism and schizophrenia are simply too complex and overlap too much to be distinguished by drawing this kind of simplistic diametric opposition, no matter how eager our brains are to accept such pleasing formulations.



You win the gold medal for jumping to conclusions.



The problem here is that you don't understand either of the conditions you're talking about. Calling them "opposite", even from the specious and sweetly naive point of view you've detailed here, is absurd.

Poke: I was trying to explain my understanding of how this model could work, not that I agree with it - as my follow up posts demonstrated.

And yes I understand the idea of basing a label or description on the framing. When I say Schizophrenia has been a dumping ground, I'm talking about labeling someone with it when they have a different condition that is not a subset of schizophrenia.

It should be noted that there isn't any theory saying that autism and schizophrenia are opposites; what there is is a theory saying that autism and psychosis are opposites (it is not exactly the same thing)

Actually it is classified as a mental disorder, not a mental disease...though both could be considered diseases as that's just a blanket term for disorders, illnessness, ect. according to the dictionary.

How are they opposite, also psychology is not a game of opposites......so I guess I find it rather odd to determine what disorders and conditions are opposites and which aren't.

I had some mold growing in my bathroom which caused me to hallucinate like I was on LSD. I thought I could telepathically communicate with others which was a delusion but maybe neurotypicals have these powers but on a less exaggerated basis as nuerotypicals can read body language and pick up on social ques.

ditto



I have a similar relationship with this guy who I know has something under the schizophrenia spectrum I don't know what exactly but he is a lot like what you've described here about your flatmate. We too relate like you do and he actually has made similar remarks about the cleanliness of a place like your flatmate.

I can also relate to him way better than to average people. That, as well, is when he doesn't have an episode. He also gets really aggressive and threatening . I think that aside from wrongful assumptions about intentions he is also very sensitive to any remark. There was this one time I was telling him about how I was really down and then we started to relate about how both our mothers had hurt us, then he made this remark about how he founded comfort when thinking of mother Theresa, he then immediately commented about how this woman once made an awful false remark about how mother Theresa supposedly hit the elder people she took care of, then I trying to be as soft and calm as I could (so he wouldn't flip out for nothing like he does sometimes) was telling him about how I didn't know if this other thing I had heard was true or not but I had heard... and then he interrupted me and asked how would what I was going to say help him, so I told him that it depended on what he valued (knowledge about the traits of a person one admires even if they are negative or maybe he valued more her image despite any negative thing (I never got to tell him this), anyhow I didn't know if it was true or not but I also meant that we could look it up together to prove or disprove it thus having that knowledge) I just finished asking him that when he completely flipped, he shouted at me in a very intimidating fashion that he ought to spit in my face and slap the door on my face for ever and that if I so much as told him what I was about to say he would kick my bones broken while he thrown me out of there and how he could do things to me that would render me unable to feel anything ever again (I don't know what he meant about this). I just kept silent until he cooled off, I knew he was just having an episode so I just kind of petted his rage down by not reacting to his episode and being understanding. We still see each other but now I triple filter whatever I am going to say, also one of his friends told me to be very smooth with my talking, and that has helped things.
And like you said, even then it makes more sense than to talk about kids grades or other average NT stuff. In fact he is about the only person I know personally with whom I can have an intellectual conversation because he likes and enjoys to.

PD: I was going to tell him that I had herd that she had kind of a strong personality, very serious.

Now, kind of off topic I have a question about something that happened that day ----> I don't know if it was my alexithymia or the fact that I don't smoke and the air in that place was filled with the smoke of 20 cigarettes (all his, we were alone) or the headache from the smoke or what. And I didn't know if I felt all that scared but I think I was because in the middle of him screaming at me, my vision kind of skipped, like I had just blunk/blinked?? for more than an instant, or like when a projector derails and the image skips, it was just for a fraction of a second but I have always attributed to me being scared, though if I was I didn't know, that's why I mentioned my alexithymia or maybe it was the smoke.
Any thoughts about what it might have been?

Last edited by HairlessAlbinoCat on 28 Mar 2012, 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What kind of mold?

^^^^^

I too was wondering, that reads so psychedelic

Schizophrenics are hypersocial and autistics are hyposocial. Schizophrenics over analyze the intentions of others, can become paranoid about people being out to get them, attribute social qualities to things that are not human (having conversation with a talking dog for example), etc. Autistics are hyposocial. They don't understand social ques, tone of voice, are interested in pursuits that have nothing to do with people, etc. This also correlates with the male brain theory of autism and female brain theory of schizophrenia.

Except Schizophrenics are not hypersocial, at all. Just look up Schiziod Personality Disorder. If Schizophrenics were hypersocial would the term make any sense?

Schizoid personality disorder is not the same thing as schizophrenia.

If I don't have aspergers I think I likely have schizoid personality disorder.

I know its not, but there is a connection between the two, otherwise they would have given SPD a different name.

Yeah, I'm not sure why people think this. Maybe psychotic=crazy=loud and disruptive=social is the thought pattern

When they are that way they are still 100% in their own world, I've witnessed it. My dad would go through his episodes and he was very talkative but talking AT you, about things that had nothing to do with the context of the situation or even remotely suited to his company/environment and he couldn't be reached for any questioning lol.

Last edited by EXPECIALLY on 30 Mar 2012, 2:25 am, edited 3 times in total.

The cycling thing makes it seem that way but I've been around a lot of schizophrenics, I would hate to say I've developed a radar for it but I basically have e_e

With both AS and schizophrenia(especially paranoid) there is a sort of "theme" with the person. In AS it's most likely to develop itself into a special interest that can become useful or may just be bizarre but it isn't the same as a schizophrenic's obsession, which often becomes harmful.

What I've noticed is that a schizophrenic's delusions often become their special interest. They notice patterns in the way that autistcs do but are always linking everything back to their delusion. It's often one single thing but my dad's would shift. He went through a phase where he thought he had killed someone and that all of us were working with the police, would attribute everything we did to that and notice some details you wouldn't think he would pick up on in a psychotic state but he did, and those details would become part of his obsession.

So the obsessive thinking and single-minded focus + the sort of bubble that both groups are prone to living in is what really underlines the similarities for me.

Like I said, I do share that with him but it manifests itself in more of an Aspie way, my obsessions are mostly academic and I become obsessed with things that are good for me most of the time. I am guilty of having a sort of "theme" too, though about a lot of things. I've noticed I see patterns really easily and tend to relate many events to the same cause in my mind.