Autism should not be in the DSM

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09 Apr 2012, 8:27 am

Cascadians wrote:

Autism is a neurological disorder.

Autism is not a mental illness.

Get rid of the shrinks and bring in the neurological scientists.

Good point. Why not just leave it to neurologists to figure out? Do Psychiatrists really understand, or will they just make things worse with their good intentions.

OddDuckNash99
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09 Apr 2012, 8:36 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Uh. Autism isn't a "brain malformation"- it's a healthy, DIFFERENT brain, and,
in the case of HFA's, many of the "impairments" are caused by the fact that the majority of the world is NOT Autistic.

Scientifically speaking, ASD brains are not formed correctly. While I wholeheartedly support neurodiversity and the fact that different doesn't mean "bad" (read my signature quote), it doesn't mean that different doesn't mean a deviation from the norm. And I do not believe that most ASD impairments result from living in an NT world. Even in a world without other people, you still need executive functioning abilities to properly understand and take caution of your environment and its potential dangers.

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Bun
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09 Apr 2012, 8:40 am

But if someone was suspected to have a mental disorder, and wants an alternate diagnosis? I think it's just fair to allow people to assert their own narrative to their doctor(s).

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Poke
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09 Apr 2012, 8:41 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Uh. Autism isn't a "brain malformation"- it's a healthy, DIFFERENT brain

Taking this idea to its logical conclusion, might we presume that there is simply no such thing as brain malformation?

TPE2
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09 Apr 2012, 9:24 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Cascadians wrote:

Autism is a neurological disorder.

Autism is not a mental illness.

Get rid of the shrinks and bring in the neurological scientists.

Good point. Why not just leave it to neurologists to figure out? Do Psychiatrists really understand, or will they just make things worse with their good intentions.

Well, if dependend of the neurologists, probably autism will never be indentified - neurologists only begin to study the causes of a condition after that condition be identified, and the identification of a possible condition requires the identification of the symptoms (behavioral, affective and/or cognitiva), who is a better job for psychologists, I think.

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09 Apr 2012, 9:28 am

Quote:

Scientifically speaking, ASD brains are not formed correctly.

No, they're not formed 'normally'. Whether normal is correct is not a scientific question.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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09 Apr 2012, 9:51 am

TPE2 wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Cascadians wrote:

Autism is a neurological disorder.

Autism is not a mental illness.

Get rid of the shrinks and bring in the neurological scientists.

Good point. Why not just leave it to neurologists to figure out? Do Psychiatrists really understand, or will they just make things worse with their good intentions.

My mom went to a neurologist to be tested for Alzheimer's and the neurologist could tell she didn't have it. If they can tell that, why can't they determine the same for autism?

Besides, a Psychiatrist might be looking more for a mental illness, so odds are you might be misdiagnosed by one.

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09 Apr 2012, 9:59 am

Can I like this OP? *like*

It's frustrating that autism is still viewed as something "wrong" that needs to be "fixed". I agree that psychologists and counselors can be of great assistance for coping skills but one-on-one therapy is just not something people on the spectrum are comfortable with. I'd imagine I'd have an easier time talking to an Aspie counselor as I am one too; talking to NT counselors in the past was extremely despairing.

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09 Apr 2012, 10:00 am

Poke wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Uh. Autism isn't a "brain malformation"- it's a healthy, DIFFERENT brain

Taking this idea to its logical conclusion, might we presume that there is simply no such thing as brain malformation?

"Mal" = ?

Anyone?

No, there is no such thing as a brain "mal"formation which is not resultant in actual, non-situation dependent impairments.

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09 Apr 2012, 10:03 am

Ettina wrote:

Quote:

Scientifically speaking, ASD brains are not formed correctly.

No, they're not formed 'normally'. Whether normal is correct is not a scientific question.

I would differentiate even further, between "normal" and un-average.

I'm red-headed and left-handed. Neither is average, but are they "abnormal"?
'Course not.
My Autism is similar.

kirayng
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09 Apr 2012, 10:07 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Uh. Autism isn't a "brain malformation"- it's a healthy, DIFFERENT brain, and,
in the case of HFA's, many of the "impairments" are caused by the fact that the majority of the world is NOT Autistic.

Were it the reverse, I'd be hard-pressed to name a single difficulty I'd have.

So true!

kirayng
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09 Apr 2012, 10:08 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Poke wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Uh. Autism isn't a "brain malformation"- it's a healthy, DIFFERENT brain

Taking this idea to its logical conclusion, might we presume that there is simply no such thing as brain malformation?

"Mal" = ?

Anyone?

No, there is no such thing as a brain "mal"formation which is not resultant in actual, non-situation dependent impairments.

Mal = bad

ValentineWiggin
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09 Apr 2012, 10:12 am

kirayng wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Poke wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Uh. Autism isn't a "brain malformation"- it's a healthy, DIFFERENT brain

Taking this idea to its logical conclusion, might we presume that there is simply no such thing as brain malformation?

"Mal" = ?

Anyone?

No, there is no such thing as a brain "mal"formation which is not resultant in actual, non-situation dependent impairments.

Mal = bad

Excellent.

kirayng
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09 Apr 2012, 10:15 am

Poke wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Uh. Autism isn't a "brain malformation"- it's a healthy, DIFFERENT brain

Taking this idea to its logical conclusion, might we presume that there is simply no such thing as brain malformation?

Of course there are brain malformations, incomplete structures, overgrowth of white matter or under-abundance of grey matter (ALS); Mal formation just means a bad formation, as in, not within normal parameters. With that logic, autism is a form of brain malformation because there is an overgrowth of local neurons with weak connections to other areas of the brain. So taking that further, malformation is only relative in context. Out of context, like above, there is no such thing as a brain malformation on it's own, only in comparison to normal.

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09 Apr 2012, 10:17 am

OddDuckNash99 wrote:

deviation from the norm

The bigot profession defines norm as like themselves, and anything different as bad that needs correction.

"norm" and "normal" is buzz words that don't have any real bearing to reality. The only thing that comes close is "nominal value".

As for psychiatrists / shrinks, have look at the history of the wonders of forced hot/cold water baths, lobotomisation, bed belting, drugging, use as guinea pig etc. There trust score is top notch.
Before that one used superstition "exorcism".

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09 Apr 2012, 10:21 am

For that matter, let's just write off the entire field of medicine, for Aristotle's notion that women's uteruses float around their bodies,
and that whole crap about the four "humors". :roll:

The entire field isn't "bad" because of XYZ thing done in the past by individuals who aren't even alive today (who, by the way, were operating within the then-current, sociologically-influenced understandings of the human mind).

I do agree that it's impossible to encourage neurodiversity while pathologizing spectrumites for not having NT brains.

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