Sadism - How far does our lack of empathy go?

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21 Apr 2012, 6:28 pm

The reason I asked was that I always thought that when I was asked, they meant house pets. I've shot birds out of trees, ripped one or two legs off of a spider to watch it prance in circles, ripped wings off of butterflies, drowned wasps and bees, set fire to ant piles, and let my dogs take either end of a snake and rip it in half, all as a kid. I always thought that was normal. I've even thrown a large rock at a dog I owned one time, just to see what would happen. But I do love cats and even a lot of dogs now. I think I won't hurt cats and dogs is because they've shown be love that most humans haven't.

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21 Apr 2012, 6:40 pm

It does seem unusual to consider animals apart from house pets to not be animals.

If you were shooting birds on a large scale for fun, it might be important to mention.

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21 Apr 2012, 6:56 pm

Are you a teen-ager? I had thoughts like that at adolesence, but they went away. My take was just a reflexx because of teasing & bullying that was constant in my early life.
Mine usually involved violence of a somewhat unrealistic sort though, like invasions of aliens destroying my school(s). Or of world domination..
Obviously, I never tried to act out any fantasy, other than some dark themed drawings & poems. A horror story or two (short fiction) also in the mix. I eventually outgrew this time of my life. Art appears to have been an outlet. I never would have considerd doing a Columbine School shooting or anything of the sort!

Sincerely,
Matthew

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21 Apr 2012, 7:00 pm

Callista wrote:

The distinction is whether the animal is capable of suffering. An insect is probably not. A fish, possibly. A bird or a mammal, definitely.

Actually I'm pretty sure all those living things are capable of suffering. Try setting an insect on fire, and its reaction is almost exactly same as how a human being, or any other animal would react to the pain.

I find it interesting though, how people distinguish between different classes of life forms. Personally I would never harm a bird or a reptile. However when it comes to insects, I just feel a great deal of satisfaction, even pleasure in killing or maiming as many of them as possible.

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21 Apr 2012, 7:14 pm

Matt62 wrote:

Are you a teen-ager?

I'm an adult.

Max000 wrote:

I actually enjoy doing this to insects. I also enjoy watching videos of people being burned alive.

Max000 wrote:

I find it interesting though, how people distinguish between different classes of life forms. Personally I would never harm a bird or a reptile. However when it comes to insects, I just feel a great deal of satisfaction, even pleasure in killing or maiming as many of them as possible.

I make the distinctions between people too. The people I care about are what most people would consider a human. Everyone else is either a servant, (someone who serves a purpose) like a cashier or my doctors, or they're on a level similar to an insect, serving no purpose. I suppose the biggest reason I don't act on my thoughts is because I would end up in jail and that wouldn't be pleasant.

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21 Apr 2012, 7:26 pm

Max000 wrote:

Callista wrote:

The distinction is whether the animal is capable of suffering. An insect is probably not. A fish, possibly. A bird or a mammal, definitely.

Yeah, I have trouble seeing the difference, there, too. An insect must have the sensation of pain, otherwise they would have no reason to avoid it. You only have to look at someone born with the inability to feel pain to see the damage that can do.

But I think the point is that feeling pain (the physical sensation) is different from feeling suffering (the emotions that arise from it). Is this a sensation/perception thing? I've no idea. Regardless, I'd never want to needlessly cause any creature pain. Emotionally, I believe all creatures are capable of suffering. I am pretty much incapable of killing insects, even if they happen to have bitten me or scared me to death (and I live in rural Australia, so this happens frequently

). The exception is instinctively swatting a mosquito.

Max000 wrote:

It seems to be a matter of how similar to us they are. You can't get much less like us than an insect, and birds and reptiles are pretty dissimilar as well. Plenty of people have pulled the wings off flies as children, but would always consider the injuring of a dog, cat or ape absolutely disgusting. You see a similar thing happening when people are willing to fish, but not to hunt.

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21 Apr 2012, 7:30 pm

Shadewraith wrote:

That's interesting, and also clarifying. Your doctors should definitely be listening to you when you ask them for help, especially if you tell them something like this.

Would you consider the people close to you as being more on your level (more like you), while those others are lower and less like you?

At what point does an acquaintance become someone you would actually care about? What has to happen there?

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21 Apr 2012, 7:54 pm

Inyanook wrote:

Max000 wrote:

It seems to be a matter of how similar to us they are. You can't get much less like us than an insect, and birds and reptiles are pretty dissimilar as well.

Um, IDK. I'm not so sure about that either. I think humans are more similar to insects, then to other animals. Probably ants and humans are the most similar. Maybe not in size or appearance, but most other ways. The way both destroy nature to build cities and communities. No other animals that I can think of do that.

But I do see your point, based on appearance. I think maybe size has to do with it more then anything else.

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21 Apr 2012, 7:58 pm

Inyanook wrote:

I would consider my fiancee a bit below my level in terms of intelligence. She's not the brightest light bulb, but I still love her. My best friend is on par with me and my intelligence. She doesn't judge me either, so we have a great relationship. My parents are on the servant level and my relationship with them is completely parasitic. People like my doctor are also on that servant level, but I do respect him and consider him on my level because of his intellect.

Inyanook wrote:

At what point does an acquaintance become someone you would actually care about? What has to happen there?

I usually start to care about someone when they show me some sort of vulnerability. It lets me know that I can trust them. I start caring about them when they need me or I can count on them when I need them. I don't trust anyone at all, so it takes a lot of work on their part to gain that trust.

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21 Apr 2012, 8:07 pm

Max000 wrote:

Giant insects would be scary as s***, so I disagree there.

It's on an emotive level, I think. It's easier to anthropomorphize a dog, cat or ape than it is a reptile or insect.

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21 Apr 2012, 8:09 pm

Shadewraith wrote:

Would you hurt your doctor, or is he the kind of person you would not consider injuring?

Shadewraith wrote:

Sorry? You trust no-one, but they have to show that you can trust them? I am somewhat confused.

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21 Apr 2012, 8:21 pm

Inyanook wrote:

Would you hurt your doctor, or is he the kind of person you would not consider injuring?

I've had fantasies involving him but only because he doesn't listen to me sometimes.

Inyanook wrote:

Sorry? You trust no-one, but they have to show that you can trust them? I am somewhat confused.

I worded that wrong. What I meant is that I don't trust anyone outside of my circle. It takes a tremendous amount of effort for me to trust an outsider.

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Inyanook
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21 Apr 2012, 8:31 pm

Ah, okay. Sorry, I should have realised that was what you meant.

Out of curiosity, is your fiancee aware of these fantasies that you have?

It could be that I'm asking too many questions, now. Please let me know if I'm being too nosy; I'm just interested.

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21 Apr 2012, 8:37 pm

Inyanook wrote:

Actually I enjoy answering them. Could be the narcissism in me :lol:

. She does not know about my fantasies and I wouldn't tell her because she wouldn't understand. I've told her everything else and we've had quite a few disagreements about how I'm being treated and what being an aspie means. She's the type of person who thinks they know about something, but has never done their research. Example being "There's no scientific evidence that a cucumber is made up of more than 90% water". You can see how frustrating that might get when I tell her the symptoms of being an aspie. Do you think someone like her could see someone who has sadistic fantasies and a borderline antisocial personality as not evil?

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TheSunAlsoRises
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21 Apr 2012, 8:37 pm

Shadewraith wrote:

I'm beginning to admit to myself that I'm sadistic. At first, I thought it was PTSD combined with my lack of empathy from being an aspie. But I think it goes a little deeper than that. I desire to hurt people. When I'm worked up, I look at videos and pictures of people suffering (terrible car accidents, torture, death, etc.) and it actually calms me down, makes my heart rate and breathing slower. I have sadistic thoughts all the time.

Now, I don't think about hurting the ones close to me, like my best friend or my fiancee. And I couldn't imagine hurting my cats (or any cats for that matter), but everyone is fair game for my sadistic fantasies. I put myself into positions where I'd have to retaliate or where I cause two people to get into physical confrontations. The thought of controlling people like puppets or watching them writhe in agony is satisfying to me.

Is this a lack of empathy gone too far? Do other aspies have these types of thoughts? I've brought it up to my doctors on several occasions and they seem to ignore it. When they do, I imagine jumping off of the couch, pinning their face to the ground, and yelling "I need help!" into their ear. Since they're useless when it comes to this, I now ask the WP community, is sadism a symptom of something, is it something other aspies experience, or am I just evil? I don't believe I'm a psychopath or a sociopath because I do care about (very few) people and animals. Some people might think I'm narcissistic, but I don't. I've never had any major problems with the law and I'm certainly not charming.

If you need more information in order to give me a suggestion, feel free to ask.

You are an Aspie, dude. The problem IS that looking at videos and pictures of people suffering has become your special interest. It relaxes YOU( your own words). Bottom line, IS THAT when you get stressed out or upset instead of grabbing a box of legos or a math book or a paint brush, etc you look at visuals of people suffering. All this behavior does IS reinforce any angry or vengeful thoughts already present in you.

You need help........ending your special interest.

TheSunAlsoRises

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21 Apr 2012, 8:42 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:

That's a really great point. I never thought of it like that. You know, I've always thought about going into medicine to become a coroner or something. That would kind of be like embracing my special interest, no?

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