Opinions on the new diagnostic criteria in the DSM-V?

Page 3 of 3 [ 42 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

OddDuckNash99
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,562

31 Oct 2012, 9:52 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I think that the stereotype of AS is more NVLD-like than autism-like. I don't identify at all with the stereotype of AS, and I don't identify much with people in the NVLD-like subgroup of AS. I identify with adults and children who have classic autism and autism-like AS.

If you mean the "geek" AS stereotype, I agree with you. I totally match the geek stereotype, which would make sense! :lol: The only thing classic NVLD doesn't usually have is special interests, which are my biggest AS symptom, but maybe a lack of special interests is only found in people with the learning disorder ONLY? Not those who have AS symptoms associated with NVLD?

Verdandi wrote:
I also agree that NVLD and sensory processing disorder should have been in the DSM-5.

Yup, yup, yup. The only ASD criteria change that I feel was spot-on and a great improvement was adding sensory issues, but there are certainly people who have SPD alone, without any other neuropsychiatric disorder(s).

At this point, now that AS is going to be removed, what would best describe me diagnostically probably would be NVLD with SPD (and OCD, of course). The two books that have described me so well are Tony Atwood's Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome, which doesn't connect a lot to autism, and Kathryn Stewart's Helping a Child with Nonverbal Learning Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome.

I'm glad to hear several others agree with me about the DSM-5 dropping the ball on this issue. Rather than add NVLD and SPD, what are they doing instead? Removing "mood disorders" as a category and taking OCD out of the anxiety disorders section. Way to go, DSM-5. :roll:


_________________
Helinger: Now, what do you see, John?
Nash: Recognition...
Helinger: Well, try seeing accomplishment!
Nash: Is there a difference?


btbnnyr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago

31 Oct 2012, 10:18 pm

I always think of the little professor when I think of the as stereotype. I know someone who is the adult version of this stereotype. His talking goes on and on and on. I say like one word for hundred words that he says. From my perspective of below average speaking ability, he is hyper verbal, moar moar moar so than most nts. I have met a couple of hyper verbal people lately, hyper verbal as in verry merry berry large amount and fluidity and prowess of speaking. They seem to have tendencies to take things eggstremely literally, moar moar moar than I do. But they don't seem to have problems communicating their thoughts in ways that make sense to others. It's just that the thoughts come out in a much larger volume of words.



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

31 Oct 2012, 10:58 pm

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
At this point, now that AS is going to be removed, what would best describe me diagnostically probably would be NVLD with SPD (and OCD, of course). The two books that have described me so well are Tony Atwood's Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome, which doesn't connect a lot to autism, and Kathryn Stewart's Helping a Child with Nonverbal Learning Disorder or Asperger's Syndrome.


Atwood's book does not connect a lot to autism? I find that a fairly peculiar statement.



Callista
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,775
Location: Ohio, USA

31 Oct 2012, 11:05 pm

He does talk about autism, but it's more a specific sub-set or stereotype related to autism--the highly verbal, socially clumsy, normal-intelligence, usually male or masculine, unusual-interest, socially anxious group. The Asperger's stereotype, in other words. For people who match his narrow definition of "Asperger's", his ideas are relevant, but they don't really cover a lot of the things that people on the autism spectrum (including those diagnosed with Asperger syndrome) have to deal with. I can't really blame him, since autism is such a huge topic and those with autism are so diverse. I just don't like the way that the "Asperger's" label has gotten associated with this stereotypical Asperger's case which doesn't actually exist too often in reality. For those who are actually close to the stereotype, it works great... not so much for the rest of us.

But this is coming from somebody who is frustrated at the stereotype in general, because it means I have to spend a lot of time correcting assumptions. I've even had to convince somebody that it was possible for me to dislike prime numbers. Apparently Aspies are supposed to like them. I just find them awkward. :roll:


_________________
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com

Autism Memorial:
http://autism-memorial.livejournal.com


OddDuckNash99
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,562

01 Nov 2012, 12:15 am

btbnnyr wrote:
I always think of the little professor when I think of the as stereotype.

I am very much the "little professor" stereotype, especially when I was a young child.

Verdandi wrote:
Atwood's book does not connect a lot to autism? I find that a fairly peculiar statement.

His original book talks a lot about AS being part of the spectrum, but the second book, the one that describes me well, often lists descriptions of symptoms without relating them back to being autism.

I, too, grow sick of the AS stereotypes, but with me, it's because the autism part is focused on too much. The layperson has no knowledge about NVLD-type AS profiles. Few even have heard of NVLD. Most times when I say I have Asperger's, nobody "believes" me. The fact that I am very wordy and can express my feelings and opinions articulately makes it hard for people to understand how much I struggle in life with certain things. It's difficult for people to understand how I have a college education but can't drive or tie a knot. And with the DSM-5 release, I really have no idea how I'm going to get my problems across. I have fallen through the cracks for years, and I fear it's going to continue.


_________________
Helinger: Now, what do you see, John?
Nash: Recognition...
Helinger: Well, try seeing accomplishment!
Nash: Is there a difference?


btbnnyr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago

01 Nov 2012, 1:03 am

Another as stereotype is eggstreme intj personality type.



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

01 Nov 2012, 2:27 am

Callista wrote:
He does talk about autism, but it's more a specific sub-set or stereotype related to autism--the highly verbal, socially clumsy, normal-intelligence, usually male or masculine, unusual-interest, socially anxious group. The Asperger's stereotype, in other words. For people who match his narrow definition of "Asperger's", his ideas are relevant, but they don't really cover a lot of the things that people on the autism spectrum (including those diagnosed with Asperger syndrome) have to deal with. I can't really blame him, since autism is such a huge topic and those with autism are so diverse. I just don't like the way that the "Asperger's" label has gotten associated with this stereotypical Asperger's case which doesn't actually exist too often in reality. For those who are actually close to the stereotype, it works great... not so much for the rest of us.

But this is coming from somebody who is frustrated at the stereotype in general, because it means I have to spend a lot of time correcting assumptions. I've even had to convince somebody that it was possible for me to dislike prime numbers. Apparently Aspies are supposed to like them. I just find them awkward. :roll:


I actually agree with all of this. There were bits and pieces in the book that were very helpful to me, but a lot of the book was not nearly as helpful as other things I've read. I am also frustrated at the stereotype in general, often here because people will use those stereotypes to claim things about people diagnosed with AS.

OddDuckNash99 wrote:
His original book talks a lot about AS being part of the spectrum, but the second book, the one that describes me well, often lists descriptions of symptoms without relating them back to being autism.


Huh, really? He seems to relate them to AS which is widely seen as a form of autism. So... I don't understand how he's not relating them back?



OJani
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,505
Location: Hungary

01 Nov 2012, 11:40 am

Maybe merging existing ASD diagnoses into one umbrella diagnosis wasn't a good idea after all in its current proposed form. Many subtypes may exist besides the NVLD-ish AS stereotype under the new ASD diagnosis. The verbose, little professor may experience just as much struggle in the social department as any other "high functioning" people on the autism spectrum, with or without special interests, with or without significant sensory issues. I wonder if NVLD alone could be covered by specific LD diagnoses in the new DSM.

Just as before, I'd suggest naming some subtypes of autism in the new DSM. The above discussion about the NVLD-ish subtype strongly indicates that different treatments for different subtypes are essential. Of course the diagnosis can be the same, but there are so many differences in severity and how the disorder manifests itself that even if we know that there are substantial differences on individual level we should seek solutions to help people to understand different subtypes, including professionals, who, like you probably already know, are often not far from the layperson. For better efficiency it would be advisable to retain some parts of the structure of the old DSM, not only for convenience, but to help understanding. You have to keep in mind that not all professionals and not all bureaucrats are experts on ASD (to say the least). In practice, AS could be divided into two subtypes (normal to high IQ HFA or SHFA and AS), and autism could be divided into several specific subtypes taken from research (Rett, Fragile-X, Angelman, etc.). The proposed severity levels are otherwise OK, because they tell nothing about individual traits, the primary function of the descriptions is to determine the quantity and quality of the help needed, not creating rigid categories.

If the subtypes couldn't be included then it would be advisable that somewhere in the new DSM a provision would be made that individual traits, such as social subtypes (aloofness, passive, active but odd), verbosity, IQ profile, etc. should be recorded and included in the diagnosis. Some of it may be pointing towards a subtype which should also be noted.

btbnnyr wrote:
Another as stereotype is eggstreme intj personality type.

My recent thread about why xNxx types are the most prevalent on WP has essentially fallen flat. I was also wondering why the single most outstanding personality type is INTJ here, and how does it relate to ASD stereotypes. Still a mystery.



Kalika
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 219

01 Nov 2012, 1:44 pm

One comment I have is that I might now be able to qualify for disability, if I ever chose to try that route. (my state does not consider AS to be a disability)



Eloa
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jun 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,223

01 Nov 2012, 7:43 pm

Ettina wrote:
I'm mostly glad about it. I'm diagnosed PDD NOS, but saying that tells you nothing about me that you wouldn't know from me saying I'm autistic. (And I meet the autism criteria. I'd be level 1 in social, and probably about a .5 in RRB - it's rare that it actually causes problems rather than just being a preference.) I'd have liked if they added Newson Syndrome, but it does have very little research behind it, so I understand why they didn't.

However, one thing that bugs me is that there are ways they could split up the autism spectrum that would be substantiated by research, and they didn't do it. Two particular divisions have been studied and found useful:

Social subtypes - Aloof (usually rejects social initiation and rarely initiates themselves), Passive (accepts interaction and enjoys it but rarely initiates) and Active but odd (initiates interaction readily in an atypical way)

Aloof and Active but odd have been found to have a high degree of reliability and validity, while Passive is lower but still somewhat reliable. Aloof is more common in lower functioning individuals, and Active but odd in higher functioning, but all types are found at any functioning level. Active but odd individuals have a higher rate of executive dysfunction and more overlap with ADHD. Passive subtype is more common among autistics who later develop catatonic features. The different subtypes also show differences in brain activity.

IQ profile - PIQ>VIQ, VIQ>PIQ and VIQ=PIQ

The three profiles are about equally common. The PIQ>VIQ subtype is most likely to have language delay and tends to have more severe social difficulties, while the VIQ>PIQ subtype has the characteristics typical of NVLD as well as autism (meaning specific learning difficulties in math and spatial skills, motor coordination problems, and so forth). The PIQ>VIQ group are more likely to have unusually large heads as well, suggesting a different underlying cause. The PIQ>VIQ group also shows evidence of visual thinking, such as lack of inner speech use in tasks where most people use inner speech. Meanwhile, the NVLD profile is associated with white matter abnormalities in the right hemisphere.

So, yeah, I wish they'd added specifiers for social and IQ profile subtypes, instead of just the severity ratings.


I have PIQ>>VIQ and my subtype is aloof and passiv.
I think visually and have a lack of inner speech which I think contributes to the executive dysfunction, because it seems logical that for a good executive function one needs a sort of inner speech.
And my head is large as well...my eyes too :oops:
I hardly talk to people and when I have to it is very exhausting.
I had a group therapy this weekend but I had too much overload and was rocking all the time and when I had to talk I was rocking even harder and stimming with my hands at the same time.
I realized it but could not stop it.


_________________
English is not my native language, so I will very likely do mistakes in writing or understanding. My edits are due to corrections of mistakes, which I sometimes recognize just after submitting a text.