Cannabis - General Ignorance.

Post Reply New Topic

I don't want or like drugs, I've never tried them, I have very bad experiences with alcohol. And I don't want a society where people smoke cannabis. It's not in my preference at all, I see a lot of harming social consequences because of it. But sociologically/criminologically, the best way may indeed be to decriminalize it.

Last edited by Underscore on 18 Nov 2012, 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

And?

I'm not going to argue again, I've done so a million times and I'm done with this topic.

Its a pointless subject, whether its good or not is irrelevant its just a lifestyle choice. Whether drinking is more dangerous than cannabis so what?! I drink very occasionally say once a year, if that. I've smoked Cannabis in the past, all it does is give the illusion its helping but it isn't. Its all psychological, like giving someone non-alcoholic beer but telling them its alcoholic, they'll actually act the same as they would if they were actually drinking. Its remarkable what the human mind is capable of!

My perception is, if you need drugs to live your life you're weak and disposable. I cant mix with pot smokers because when high, they come across as stupid and moronic, and babble about pointless things. The same with drunk people, they annoy me if I'm sober. Therefore stoners will always mix with other stoners, so they can share the same passion for a disillusioned state of reality.

Propaganda paranoia about government with holding weed from civilians, because it enhances functionality. I'm tired of this, its just a childish game. I don't wont Cannabis shoved down my throat constantly by some hippy that believes the world will end. The government want people to do drugs, its a good way to deal with population growth. Also it separates the weak from the strong, so the drug users dissipate into the slums of society only ever to be seen at night.

If drugs become legal everywhere, it'll only separate 'users from non users' further. If this happens lets give the users they're own country, then we can all live in the worlds we choose to live in, problem solved.

Gangs wont disappear if drugs/prostitution become legal, they'll just find a new way of making quick cash. Laws are in place to better the majority not the minority, I love that drug users are defying the laws in place, but for what? They're asking for nothing, but they're alternative reality to be legal.

I like my drug free life, you like yours stop trying to convert people to join your Cult. I don't post topics about how 'Weed smokers are idiots' and I definitely don't try and convince innocent people to join my way of life.

This topic should be banned, some people might read this and actually start smoking Marijuana because they believe its a fix for Autism. Its not a good idea for people on the spectrum to take drugs, since we already have an increased risk of developing mental health issues, taking drugs may trigger mental health implications to arise.

I don't dislike you as a person, I have no issue with you're choice of life. I just don't agree with how you go about it, if you want to change the world do it, but don't convince non users that its beneficial to do drugs.

Studies of the effects of drugs rarely test the effect of set and setting (of the mind and the environment). What if the effects on IQ are based on what most people do regularly who smoke marijuana during the teenage years, and if we studied what they did while high and while sober and checked we would find differences.

Yeah, and it's harmful to drive a car. Did you know people die doing it? It's harmful to overeat. Did you know it causes heart disease? It's harmful to fly. You might just crash and die. Hell, some people are allergic to Asprin. Might as well outlaw that too.

You have to take an honest look at what's gained by making something illegal and how much you believe the government should "babysit" people. Do you think it's parents' responsibility to show them the dangers of excess (too much sun, too much food, not getting enough sleep, too much drugs) or do you think the government should be stepping into everyone's home and do the work for them. Because, that's really what you're advocating.

And, as a result, you get billions and billions of dollars into the hands of the worst people out there (since they're the only people who will do illegal drug trade due to the fact that it is illegal), causing all mayhem, crime and misery. Why the the St Valentine's Day Massacre occur? Drug Prohibition (only it was alcohol). How did Al Capone create his empire? Drug Prohibition. How do the Mexican Cartels have militias that will rival most small countries? Drug Prohibition. Why? Because people continue to buy it, regardless, and just like the 1920s, instead of the money going to Budweiser or Jack Daniels, it goes to Al Capone. Today it's going to Vicente Carrillo Fuentes, Joaquín Guzmán Loera, etc.

So, you want all this lunacy, just because you don't want people to be responsible for their own lives, to not have to teach their children what's detrimental to their long-term existence and despite the fact that it doesn't change the usage, statistically speaking, whatsoever?

Who cares if someone's a lazy stoner down your street who only delivers pizza and lives in a tiny box of any apartment. That's his life, and isn't affecting you one damn bit. If he doesn't do it on the job or when he drives, it doesn't affect your life at all. That can go for any drug, including alcohol.

Or, we can keep on spending billions of dollars making things not change one bit, whatsoever.

You tell me why you feel this way.

Last edited by JRR on 18 Nov 2012, 6:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Why do you drink at all if it's just giving you an "illusion"?

Have you ever read up on neuroscience? They're pretty sure it's real and not just an "illusion" for both cannabis and alcohol.

Sure a person will act someone drunk or high if you give them a placebo but that doesn't mean it's the same.

I never said anything about any of that, you're putting words in my mouth and I do not appreciate it. People don't teach their kids right and wrong about drugs anymore, hell, half of them probably do it themselves while the kids are sitting there watching. Why hasn't it changed? Because people STILL do drugs and will do them even more if they're legalized and the difference is at that point, no-one can do anything about it. So before you go spouting a bunch of crap to me about my views, why don't you look at the biggest picture of all, the kids and their futures that will be affected because their parents are potheads. I don't give a d**n if someone does drugs, that's not the point. The point is, where will the kids' future be? I'll tell you, the same as their parents, their friends, and half of everyone else who does drugs today, nowhere. And a country who's kids have futures that go nowhere is a country with no future, and frankly that's worse than what you're talking about. So with respect, I think I'll keep my point of view and be done with explaining myself to you.

Where is the proof? Link please. It's comical that people still believe this. The myth comes from a 1980 study by heath et al in which 2 monkeys were exposed to marijuana over a long period of time in doses 200 times stronger than the human adult dose. They noticed structural changes in the monkeys' brains. I will agree with you in that if a human were locked up in a cage, medically experimented on against their will, 'forcefed' 200 joints a day they would probably show structural changes in the brain. If you're basing your claim on something else show us.

Just common sense alone should tell you this is not true when you have 10's of millions of Americans regularly ingesting cannabis while living a normally productive lives. Have you ever met anyone who has brain damage from marijuana?

So, why is the Netherlands the 10th GDP per Capita in the world? Shouldn't everyone be huge potheads, getting nothing done and just lazying around?

That is what you would expect with the logic you are proposing.

I'll give you why you're wrong, as I've been there, many times and worked with the dutch for over a decade:

Human self-interest.

People aren't fools everywhere. Yes, anyone in the Netherlands can smoke pot day and night. But, they'd RATHER actually have a life, a career and a family. The most "family man" I have ever met was Dutch (living in the US at the time) and while he saw no issue in it, really had no desire, because his family was his life. Why would he be smoking pot all day when he had three kids and his wife to come home to, eat dinner, help study and maybe watch a little TV with? People aren't that dumb, and those who are that dumb will end up that way, anyway. The Dutch are some of the smartest, hardest working people I've known. And most people only do it on extremely rare occasions, since they've got better things to do. And, human nature is no different in the Netherlands than it is in the US.

Finally, if you want empirical EVIDENCE on why you're wrong, instead of an analogy, just look at Portugal, who did it a decade ago. The stats are facts. There's actually less users and less addicts than there was before:

http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal ... rks-2012-7

Now, I can see that you had your mind made up prior to this and don't really want this to be a dialogue, but I'm hoping that you'll at least let this digest a bit.

Here's a better thought, you prove me wrong with real scientific evidence, then I'll consider this as fact. And to answer your question, yes I have.

This isn't about human nature as a whole, if it were we'd be going under the assumption that everyone wants to do drugs. And showing a business study for one country that can in no way speak for everyone else in the world, proves nothing except that it works for them. That doesn't mean it would work for everyone else.

And, that doesn't mean it can't, either.

As I said, I'm just going to let you digest this.

I gave you two countries who have it decriminalized who are both productive and have lower usage. Basically your counter-argument against it is "We're different."

Factual answers versus "we're different". That's what we've got going on right here.

But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say, sure, maybe we're different. As you can imagine, we're not. There's only been one study by the Federal Government to compare marijuana use patterns, among decriminalized states (a handful were done in the 1970s) versus those who remained criminalized. Word for word, this is what they concluded:

"Decriminalization has had virtually no effect on either marijuana use or on related attitudes about marijuana use among young people."

Study: "Marijuana Decriminalization: The Impact on Youth 1975-1980," Monitoring the Future, Institute for Social Research, University of Michigan, 1981.

And, the Cato Institute is a think tank which did a statistical study. While shown on a business website, It's not a "business study". It's a statistical analysis. And the numbers are facts.

I understand your concern, but the evidence is pretty clear to me. Your discounting of facts and lack of logic baffles me (for all of us with ASD / Asperger's), but believe what you want.

Note: It's incredible strange that I'm letting this argument go on as long as it is, considering I don't even use it! All I want is to visit historic cities in Mexico without being concerned I will die, just like it used to be possible before the drug war gave cartels so much money that they ruined everything.

You're putting more words in my mouth, I never said "we're different", I said just because it worked for those countries, doesn't mean it'll work for all of them, that's common sense and logic. So who honestly lacks logic here? I'm done debating this with people who would put words in my mouth and insult my sense of logic.

I said "basically" which meant it was not literal. And, then I responded with an example in OUR country, directly addressing the "common sense" point you make that "it doesn't mean it'll work for them" (referring to the US). I could have not even addressed that and said that it's a bit strawman to discount studies that don't have a full population sample. With that rationale, pretty much every study on the planet would be considered invalid, since "not everyone" is included in the study. So, I got one that included us. Anyway, you intentionally ignored that, so carry on...

BTW, regardless of opinions, I have to say that I think it's pretty great to be around people who place importance in logic. If I was by you, I'd be giving you a high five for the comment alone.

So what you're telling me is, that if I have a conversation with you, you will make wild claims without any proof whatsoever and I have to prove your claims are false with scientific evidence. Seems fair to me. Since we're here already here you go, http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu/2009/MarijuanaBrain.htm

A nice summary full of links to studies. I'd be willing to bet you'll reject it all without even reading it. Your turn man of 'science'. Should I hold my breath until you come up with a link of your own?