One-step advice on how to fit-in NTs' society. Don't!

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LearningTime
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23 Nov 2012, 8:26 pm

Prefas wrote:
Moondust wrote:
Some confuse between fitting in society to survive and leisure social relations.


I don't mean disrespect but despite your age you seem not to understand that you don't need to fit in a society to survive but to be accepted to a society that provides to you safety, jobs and health care. That's a survival condition, not fitting in. For example gipsies are not accepted to France. They have a real problem of surviving, they can't go to hospitals, the community doesn't provide them food, legal jobs. From the other hand there are a lot of people who fit in the society very well but they are facing a lot of difficulties in surviving, in fact most of the people are. So fit in hasn't anything to do with survival. Fit in is about easily relating and matching with others and helps you soften your pain, just like you do with your cats :D.


perhaps in the western world, fitting in is surving as a lot of the jobs are jobs which aren't actually necesary in their purpose but people still need jobs. ie because the nature of the work of the jobs is easy to be done and creative it becomes who you know rather than there being a special ability requried for the job. and if these are the only jobs on offer and you still need a job then fitting in does become surviving. but then again in the same countries they give council tax benefits so you'll always survive aint gona die.



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23 Nov 2012, 9:15 pm

I REALLY, immensely enjoyed the OP's thoughts on the challenges surroundings Aspergers blending in with the NT world. The "looking under the trees" thoughts particularly.

Well, I believe I've done my share of looking under the trees in the past, and you know what? I too am just as guilty of pretending and gaining with people who I found to be prominent for certain purposes; be it my university days, shared living situations, or office politics. I put up with a certain amount of negativity from a couple of people, who clearly wanted to use me for certain things, because they were socially savvy BUT I learned plenty from them as a result. Sometimes I had to pretend to be "with it", and I went to bars and clubs with this one guy and his friends and pretended to be normal (yet still exhibited some quirks) just so I could observe & imitate their behaviour as closely as possible even though I endured some mild-moderate ridicule and sarcasm. He clearly just wanted to use me to up his status b/c he looked socially superior with his high extroversion and glib superficiality and I was just part of the entourage. Also, this guy gave me lifts to places so I wouldn't have to take the bus, and let me use his CD collection. I let him use my computer in return. Because I exposed myself to that, I found that my social interactions improved later (you could say it was just the company I kept, but I'd disagree on that being the sole variable).

Also in the workplace in more recent years, I did engage in office politics but just not according to the same conventions as others. I didn't intuitively see the tribal nature of it all. In my dept, people hung out with each other & engaged in camaraderie and so forth, which for me was minimal, but I was very good at going the extra mile for people in other depts who were our "internal customers". I even got chummy with a couple of them b/c of their knowledge and the prospect that they could get me a better post in their dept. I would compliment this one guy on his insights and tact in explaining a certain technology. (Think Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends & Influence People). Obviously, I was looking for gain. The unspoken rule though, was not to be too fraternal, giving or assisting to outside depts, so not having seen this part of the "forest", I found myself given the cold shoulder by folks in my immediate dept. It was a lesson learned. Even now I don't have quite polished instincts but I find it's a gradual process of trial and error with slow improvement. I think that we can approximate fitting in but never 100%.



LearningTime
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23 Nov 2012, 9:30 pm

does anyone remember the phrase 'act like an adult'... what the f**k does that even mean anymore...



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23 Nov 2012, 9:43 pm

there may be a lot of them but i dont think these instincts are that good because if you have a tribal consciousness that's why they also have stress on their mind. and that's possibly the reason why they don't lead to having interests (heavy/originally found interests) because it's a fact that stress lowers your ability to think. i think people who have social anxiety disorder are the non neurotypicals and the people who have general anxiety disorder are the (more likely to be) neurotypicals. non neurotypicals don't get the tribal stuff going around them and this leads to experiences and vibes that will cause them to be nervous in the next encounter especially as they're less aggressive than the neurotypicals(tribsemn in reacting fighting attitude). but however failling tribesman are likely to be aware of the threat just always practically as it's their life so they get stress.

also all neurotypicals are now meditating and understanding mindfullness and stuff - they're basically trying to become more autistic. being aware of the present moment - classic autists are in the present always. present defined by basically paying attention to sensation not thought aka words and communication tried drilling into you by everyone.



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23 Nov 2012, 11:48 pm

Not conforming means not surviving....to a large degree at least. Even NTs have to conform some.



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24 Nov 2012, 12:16 am

But there are always those too young to know yet and those too old already for it to make a difference. Mainly, those who haven't yet entered and those who have already retired from the work market.


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24 Nov 2012, 2:10 am

WhoKnowsWhy wrote:
Even NTs have to conform some.


they're the onest that do all the conforming i thought.



LearningTime
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24 Nov 2012, 2:12 am

Moondust wrote:
But there are always those too young to know yet and those too old already for it to make a difference. Mainly, those who haven't yet entered and those who have already retired from the work market.


can you describe it for me so i can know it roughly without/before entering the work market?



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24 Nov 2012, 2:47 am

Joe90 wrote:
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Though it is possible for a non-dominant male to mate with a dominant, or non-dominant female but this female will cheat or abandon her partner on her first opportunity of mating with a dominant one. If she does not and prefer to stick with her high values of loyalty she's probably an aspie..


Looks like you are only seeing the complex differences with NTs and Aspies in black and white.


That's a really common Asperger's thing to do - see things in black and white terms only.



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24 Nov 2012, 5:30 am

Moondust wrote:
But there are always those too young to know yet and those too old already for it to make a difference. Mainly, those who haven't yet entered and those who have already retired from the work market.


I like you



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25 Nov 2012, 7:56 am

I'm posting so more people read this



lonelyguy
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25 Nov 2012, 8:58 am

smudge wrote:
Prefas wrote:
Though it is possible for a non-dominant male to mate with a dominant, or non-dominant female but this female will cheat or abandon her partner on her first opportunity of mating with a dominant one. If she does not and prefer to stick with her high values of loyalty she's probably an aspie..


That is such bollocks!

I agree 100% bollocks :lol:



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25 Nov 2012, 9:16 am

agree with OP.



1000Knives
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25 Nov 2012, 1:49 pm

But...

"The nail that sticks out gets hammered down."



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25 Nov 2012, 2:12 pm

Being different may sound so simple, but it isn't always. I don't have the guts to stand out. I don't want to be ridiculed. I have the normal level of self-awareness that the majority of NT people do, so I can't help being sensitive of what other people think. I want friends, I like having friends, and I don't always go with the cliche ''be different/quirky/weird, if people don't like it then they are not worth your time, the people who accept you are worth being your friends''. I HATE THAT ADVICE! That doesn't always work. Just because someone gets a little weirded out if I act abnormal, doesn't mean they are nasty people who aren't worth my friendship. I don't expect everyone to change fully to adapt to me. I have my quirks, but I still have to make a bit of effort to fit in aswell.
I have a job now, and I do want to fit in and be accepted with the other workers there. I don't want to act all weird just to prove a point that ''I'm an Aspie and I have been advised to be weird because I am not fully NT''.

And acting normal is partly natural for me too. Just because I'm on the Autism spectrum doesn't mean I am 100 percent faking. When I'm walking along in the street, walking up straight in normal rhythm is natural to me. I don't want to suddenly let myself go, then wonder why I get ridiculed.


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25 Nov 2012, 2:43 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Being different may sound so simple, but it isn't always. I don't have the guts to stand out. I don't want to be ridiculed. I have the normal level of self-awareness that the majority of NT people do, so I can't help being sensitive of what other people think. I want friends, I like having friends, and I don't always go with the cliche ''be different/quirky/weird, if people don't like it then they are not worth your time, the people who accept you are worth being your friends''. I HATE THAT ADVICE! That doesn't always work. Just because someone gets a little weirded out if I act abnormal, doesn't mean they are nasty people who aren't worth my friendship. I don't expect everyone to change fully to adapt to me. I have my quirks, but I still have to make a bit of effort to fit in aswell.
I have a job now, and I do want to fit in and be accepted with the other workers there. I don't want to act all weird just to prove a point that ''I'm an Aspie and I have been advised to be weird because I am not fully NT''.

And acting normal is partly natural for me too. Just because I'm on the Autism spectrum doesn't mean I am 100 percent faking. When I'm walking along in the street, walking up straight in normal rhythm is natural to me. I don't want to suddenly let myself go, then wonder why I get ridiculed.


For example, how do you act abnormal?