Adult outcomes in the population

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I have friends. but I do not see any of my friends for months. I see them maby 1 time in every 2 months. somtiesm I do not see them for 6 months or longer. one time my best friend complained and said she had not seen me for nearly a year. but friendship for me does not change becuase you do not see some one for a long time. I have friends but maby not how most people do. most people want to see there friends every month. my sister has to see her friends every week.

This makes sense, but why specifically two? It just seems a fairly low number for being in good social shape.

I'm not complaining about where I categorized myself (fair) because I have more than two friends. I am not sure that this means my social impairments are not that severe or obvious, nor that I am in good social/emotional health, but maybe that's why my friends are online and I don't have any friends currently with whom I interact face to face.

I picked fair, because I live my own apartment but need constant support (financial and otherwise). I cannot maintain employment; but I am a Masters student at university.

[1] Most recent official IQ score--> never had an official test. I am fairly certain it is above average, but not really sure beyond that.
[2] Most recent Autism Spectrum Quotient Test score--> 48
[3] Highest level of education achieved--> Bachelor of Arts. Currently an MA student and ultimate goal is to get a PhD.
[4] Degree achieved and in what field (only applies to those who attended community college or above after high school and graduated)--> Bachelor of Arts with Combined Honours in Religious Studies and International Development Students. Currently working toward a Masters of Arts in Theology
[5] How long did it take you to achieve your highest degree?--> I finished the 4 year BA degree in 3 1/2 years because I took classes every summer.
[6] If employed, are you employed up to your potential? (i.e. the job you currently have requires the highest degree you hold).--> have SO much trouble maintaining employment, probably will always find this difficult.
[7] If living independently, at what age did you move out and start living on your own?--> moved into an apartment in August 2012 for school, which is about an hour from home. I live alone, but am still dependent on support for help in doing things, money, etc.
[8] If you never have been in a romantic relationship, are you interested in getting into one?--> Not really. Might be open to it some day, but I doubt it will ever happen. I am not very good at talking to people like that.
[9] If you have ever been in a romantic relationship, how old were you when you first got into one?--> never had one
[10] Outcome--> i picked fair, but probably between restricted and fair.
[11] Age Group--> I'm 28.
[12] Diagnosis Group--> Autistic disorder

[1] Most recent official IQ score
95.

[2] Most recent Autism Spectrum Quotient Test score
I haven't taken this test in a *long* time and am not sure what to think about it.

[3] Highest level of education achieved
B.S.

[4] Degree achieved and in what field (only applies to those who attended community college or above after high school and graduated)
Finance.

[5] How long did it take you to achieve your highest degree?
Around 5 years for my Bachelor's.

[6] If employed, are you employed up to your potential? (i.e. the job you currently have requires the highest degree you hold).

Probably not. But I can survive. I don't make as much money as others in my field, but again that's not something I'm too concerned about as long as I have a job, period. Feel blessed about this. Also self-employed up to my potential, but that is not my 'primary job'.

[7] If living independently, at what age did you move out and start living on your own?

18, but ran into many issues (non-financial). I had to move many times before really finding the right fit, i.e. people who won't call the cops on me having a meltdown. This was actually the biggest issue. Not smoothly settled into independent living (get along with neighbors / landlord and the like) until 22.

[8] If you never have been in a romantic relationship, are you interested in getting into one?
n/a

[9] If you have ever been in a romantic relationship, how old were you when you first got into one?
About age 19. Had many issues re: relationships with NT or nonautistic but mood-disordered men and women. Finally in a relationship where my partner "gets it". But not really any good friends outside of my relationsihp.

[10] Outcome
I would say moderate, or what this scale labels "good".

[11] Age Group
I'm 25.

[12] Diagnosis Group
Autistic disorder + mood disorder.

I am going to reveal the study that partly inspired me to make this poll in the first place. That source is located on the following site:

http://www.mdjunction.com/diary/the-green-bucket/asperger-syndrome-and-autism-a-comparative-longitudinal-follow-up-study-more-than-5-years-after-original-diagnosis

The study that I am referring to in the link defined the following outcomes for each individual age group as you can probably figure out by reading the study yourself:

I. Age group: 23 years or older at time of follow-up
* Good Outcome: Living independently AND In higher education/currently employed.
* Fair Outcome: Either living independently and/or in higher education/currently employed.
* Restricted Outcome: Neither living independently nor in higher education/currently employed, but they are capable of living in a group home without any difficulty.
* Poor Outcome: Obviously handicapped with either no independent social progress or presence of a major psychiatric disorder (psychosis); but has enough communication skills that they don't have to be
institutionalized.
* Very Poor Outcome: People in this group are those who are completely depend on other people for daily functioning and have to be institutionalized.

II. Age group 2: 22 years or younger at time of follow-up
* Good Outcome: Have at least 2 friends/steady relationship AND In higher education/currently employed.
* Fair Outcome: Have at least 2 friends/steady relationship and/or in higher education/currently employed.
* Restricted Outcome: Neither have at least 2 friends/steady relationship nor in higher education/currently employed, but they are capable of living in a group home without any difficulty.
* Poor Outcome: Obviously handicapped with either no independent social progress or presence of a major psychiatric disorder (psychosis); but has enough communication/daily living skills that they don't
have to be institutionalized.
* Very Poor Outcome: People in this group are those who are completely dependent on other people for daily functioning and usually have to be institutionalized.

Personally, I think the study has some flaws and not going into too many specifics about certain things like how many of the people who were younger than 22 years of age and had a good outcome had at least two friends or how many of them who had a good outcome who were not currently in higher education were employed and not underemployed at the same time. They define "living independently" as not living with your parents even though the study suggested that everyone included in the study group who were 'living independently' were dependent/in need of their family for support (I am guessing this is just financial support, but this 'support' could be more than just financial).

That is why I decided to reclassify the outcomes for the polls by separating the categories of age-based outcome classification into 3 different important aspects of human life: (i) independent living, (ii) interpersonal relationships, (iii) career. I defined very good outcome as having all 3 of these things, good outcome as having 2 of these 3 things, fair outcome as having 1 of these things, and restricted outcome as having none of these things. I didn't define a poor or very poor outcome group because that would be basically just a worse version of 'restricted' outcome in terms of having none of the three things.

So to answer your question, Verdandi, I got the 'having at least two friends/steady relationship' criteria from the study in the mdjunction.com link.

Thank you.

I am sorry if I was coming across as disagreeing/arguing, that wasn't my intent. I was really just curious as to the criteria. I think you've been asking some interesting questions lately, and I was trying to understand this one better.

Don't worry about it.

Immaterial. A lack of desire to form relations is also a criterion of AS/AD. Whether she thinks she wants one or not doesn't matter; she very well may not be able to, unlike her peers. Her lack of desire, whilst not a bother regarding independent living, is an outlier for humans, and falls under "disorder".





Clinically significant generally falls into the domain of, "unable" to without help. If you're independent because someone buys you a house, does all of your housekeeping/gardening, and cooks all of your meals, you're not "independent".

chssmstrjk,

That complete study is about the same as others I've read regarding outcome. Interesting that only 10% of the AS group held a typical job though (that's pretty bad overall).

Yeah, that is pretty bad. Worse thing is, it is not mentioned how many of those 10% who were able to hold a typical job were not underemployed. But the discussion of the study indicates that these results are sub-optimal. So chances are that 10% or more of people on the autism spectrum are able to hold a job. Heck, the poll that I am doing right now, just based on the 50 people with ASDs, shows more promising results than that study. Close to half of the people with an ASD who voted in the poll had at least a Good outcome whereas a little less than 20% of the people with ASDs who voted had a Very Good outcome (implying that at least 20% of people on the autism spectrum are able to live independently without financial assistance or daily living assistance).

That's understandable that you are happy to just have a job (given the current state of America's economy);

After looking at the posts that people have been making on this thread, it is nice to see that all of the 4 people who have stated 'Autism/Autistic Disorder' as their diagnosis group are/were in higher education and either still in it or have at least a Bachelor's in a field. It really goes against (in a good way) the mdjunction.com study I mentioned in an earlier post. The study states that none of the people in the autistic disorder group were in or had completed higher education. It goes to show you that being diagnosed with autism/autistic disorder does not stop you from attending higher education (and potentially completing it).

I completely disagree with this statement.

Having a partner (which by the way isn't necessarily a girlfriend), does not at all mean that you have anything related to good social/emotional health, or that your social impairments are not obvious to people. It means you have a partner that works with you despite you having an ASD, which is great, but does not at all make a statement about someone's social/emotional health, or someone's social abilities.

(I do agree with using it for a thing to question in the outcomes, because it is something that is such a challenge for people on the autistic spectrum, but I do not agree that it has any necessary statement on overall abilities outside of that relationship, one relationship is completely different than anything else socially because its only one person who is accepting you for who you are.)

[1] Most recent official IQ score
126
[2] Most recent Autism Spectrum Quotient Test score
38
[3] Highest level of education achieved
Attending university.
[8] If you never have been in a romantic relationship, are you interested in getting into one?
No, Physical relationships are sufficient.
[10] Outcome
Fair - I am in higher education.
[11] Age
18 - 24
[12] Diagnosis Group
ASD

Others N/A

"Clinically significant" means significant in the clinical sense and that is all. It is not synonymous with "dependent." If that does not make it clear, then here is a definition of "clinically significant": A result that is large enough to affect a patient’s disease state in a manner that is noticeable to the patient and/or caregiver. (source: National Center for Biotechnology Information), while on the other hand, it is not so easily defined:

One proposed change for the DSM-IV is the removal of this clinical significance criterion from the diagnostic criteria and making it a separate dimension. There are two prominent arguments promoting such consideration. First, some argue that the clinical significance criterion is redundant. The wording of the symptoms themselves already ensure impairment and distress. Second, significant distress or impairment can be part of a "normal" reaction to loss or stress - thus, the goal of eliminating false positives may not be being met. (source: "Clinically significant distress or impairment: essential to a diagnosis or redundant?" by Joye C. Anestis, Psychology Brown Bag)


In either case, a patient certainly can live independently and still be clinically impaired. Whether living with or without continual assistance, a patient can still be significantly impaired or under distress. In my own personal case, and sorry for puttig it sarcastically, please forgive me for struggling my entire life to try to not be a burden on my fiends and family, even though I have failed quite a few times in that attempt. I've tried to avoid being a burden to others because feeling like a burden only makes my distress greater and creates a feeling of hopelessness.

Last edited by dyingofpoetry on 16 Dec 2012, 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[1] Haven't had one.
[2] Not sure if I've taken that or not.
[3] A bit of college, no degree or anything.
4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 do not apply.
[9] Either 16 or 17, lasted a short amount of time just like every time after.
[10] restricted
[11] 18-24
[12] Currently confused about that, My last therapist said I had it and wrote a letter thing originally for college when I was going to explain what issues I had. But since he was just a therapist I figured it was still more of a self diagnoses, since I am the one who thought it sounded likely it and brought it up to him after my sister mentioned it. My current therapist agrees I could certainly be on the spectrum...So yeah I am confused whether or not that is actually a diagnoses or not since I thought only psychologists and psychiatrist could actually diagnose it.

If while seeing a therapist you are also seeing a psychiatrist, your therapist should have your information in notes and can forward it to the doctor. An interview with your psychiatrist (who really should be knowledgeable in ASDs) can lead to a provisional diagnosis if he/she agrees that you meet the criteria. Some people stop at the provisional diagnosis, which allows them self-knowledge, but may not make them eligible for services. If you receive the provisional diagnosis, then you can chose to be tested by a qualified psychologist who also really should be knowledgeable in ASDs), but in most cases the opinion of the therapist alone does not qualify as a diagnosis.

Last edited by dyingofpoetry on 16 Dec 2012, 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I do agree with dyingofpoetry on this.

Sweetleaf, the D/U ASD group in this poll includes people who suspect that they are on the autism spectrum (based on self-diagnoses and observations from the people who have interacted with them often enough and for an extended enough period of time to tell) although they may have not been officially diagnosed on the autism spectrum by a licensed psychiatrist. Since your sister noticed that you could be on the autism spectrum and you agreed with her on that this is likely, I would say that the answer to [12] would be D/U ASD.