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emimeni
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25 Jan 2013, 3:12 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers indicate that you have a somewhat abstract sense of self and that you "choose" to obey social norms, meaning you do this consciously, not autonomously. I would have expected your answer more from either a male with AS or a female with AS who has not been pressured to "act like a girl."


That's interesting. I've been diagnosed with PDD-NOS, partially because I "choose" to obey social norms (therefore making my autism less obvious), and partially because I had some degree of anomia during childhood that's more or less been resolved now.

I was raised by hippy parents, so I probably felt little pressure to "act like a girl" during childhood, and I don't try to now.


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25 Jan 2013, 3:15 pm

EXPLANATION:

I was using a coding convention of four categories or themes for everyone's answers. The categories are:
A-self identification not requiring reference to others, such as "I am a man"
B-self identification requiring a reference to other people or a social institution, such as "I am a mother"
C-self identification which is more abstract, but abstractly refers to a social institution (I was grouping self-identification based on interests in this category), such as "I enjoy music"
D)-self identification which transcends human social action or interaction, such as "I am an intelligence" or "I hope to improve myself"

I was coding answers based on a study published in 1964 which compared the "normal" population's answers to this test to mental patients. The study included behavioral information connected to identity, so the interpretation of behavior I gave was from that study (by McPartland, Cumming, and Garretson: "Self-Conception and Ward Behavior in Two Psychiatric Hospitals"). This study also looked at how the patients were supposedly behaving and therefore how they were treated. This helped me to see what kind of identity seems to be congruent with acceptance in society.

According to the study, typically developed people operating normally in the general population define themselves mostly with B answers. People who answered with A answers supposedly have "passive" identities and behavior and are more likely to be targeted as abnormal/withdrawn. C answers indicate people who can function normally most of the time but are sometimes a "problem" because they may not choose to obey social norms. D answers are abstract concepts of self and are not supposed to be seen much in the general population. So like A, D people are more likely to be targeted for thinking in unique ways, which likely influences their behavior.

NT people are more likely to answer with a few As, then mostly Bs, a few Cs, and no Ds. In that order.

When I was receiving answers I was looking at people's profiles to see how they identified on the spectrum. I was interested in that some people gave answers that were not what I was expecting from their diagnoses. I had already suspected that ASD was being diagnosed more on external behaviors and less on internal states and this is mostly what I'm studying. Receiving answers about people's identities that to me, conflicted with their identification on the spectrum led me to believe that what people are told they "are" is not always well suited to their internal state.

I will probably include this test on my thesis, but perhaps tweak the coding to give more specific categories of self. Of course the coding convention I was using did not account for ASD.

DISCLAIMER ONE: I am a sociology grad student and cannot diagnose anyone. All I can do is say that something looks like something else.

DISCLAIMER TWO: This was not an official study and this information will NOT be included in on my thesis. I just wanted to know if it was worth studying officially. I will continue to check this thread and interpret answers based on the coding convention I have. I will also continue to respond with the coding interpretation via PM.

THANK YOU to everyone who replied or will reply. :)



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25 Jan 2013, 3:16 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Raziel wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
You have a highly abstract self and are more likely to behave in ways that break social norms. You are more likely to be socially rejected because of behavior that is not socially acceptable or understandable. I was expecting this kind of result from someone with non-AS autism. Your identifications that referenced society came later in your answers, meaning that you think of yourself abstractly first and then as a member of society second. This is the opposite of what I'm expecting from NT answers.


Interesting. :D
There is some truth to it, still I dunno. Not even the student I share an apartment with knows about me being autistic, also not the ppl I'm studying with at university. Just good friends and so on.
But I was very typical autistic as a child and I kept those parts kind of in me.


Most people don't understand what autism is or what an autistic person might be like. "Breaking social norms" could be anything from dressing differently to sometimes hurting people's feelings without meaning to, to sometimes failing to respond when someone speaks or something happens. People often explain "social failures" to be something like the other person isn't interested, misunderstood, etc and will not categorize you as someone with a diagnosis or someone who is weird.


Well true. I just know I've been tested for seven hours by a study about empathy in autism and my social understanding was officially in the normal range. I could just be dx correctly through my very typical childhood (nonverbal etc.), overload and stuff.
Just wanted to mention it.
So for me the trouble with autism is not the social stuff, but it doesn't mean at all that I don't have very typical autistic thinking patterns. The one doesn't necessarily has to do with the other. Just my personal opinion on that.


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Last edited by Raziel on 25 Jan 2013, 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 Jan 2013, 3:17 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers indicate that you understand your place in society and mostly behave in socially acceptable ways, but you sometimes "choose" whether or not to obey a social norm rather than automatically following it. Your answers suggest that you have a fairly typical sense of self. You are also more likely to be middle to upper class. I was not expecting this result from someone on the spectrum.

To the bolded part: nope, true blue-collar working class zero. :P On the social part, I think there are some things about myself that I can 'mask', so to speak, when in the company of others; some of which I have picked up from my mother and other relatives. I can blend in, but only to a certain extent.


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25 Jan 2013, 3:27 pm

kamiyu910 wrote:
Who am I?

I am a mother
I am an artist
I am a cook

I am intelligent
I am shy
I am scared

I am depressed
I am a gamer
I am an animator

I am confused
I am an animal lover
I am in pain

I am tired
I am a wife
I am frustrated

I am quiet
I am strong
I am weak

I am a traveler
I am a homebody


Your answers suggest that you partially have a social, or role-defined self, and partially have a more abstract self. So this indicates that you are someone who sometimes consciously chooses to obey social norms and sometimes you don't. I would expect this answer from either a male with AS or a female on the autism spectrum who was not overly pressured to "act like a girl."



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25 Jan 2013, 3:33 pm

hyksos55 wrote:
1. I am a lover of God
2. I am a lover of nature
3. I am a husband
4. I am a father
5. I am a friend
6. I am a loner
7. I am a lover of history
8. I am a lover of books
9. I am a collector
10. I am a traveler
11. I am someone who dose not suffer fools gladly.
12. I am melancholy
13. I am one who encourages
14. I am easily irritable
15. I am anxious
16. I am lover of virtue
17. I am one who desires justice for all
18. I am someone who lives by faith
19. I am a believer in hope
20. I am a believer that love overcomes all things
21. I am also a flawed individual


Your answers indicate that you have more of an abstract self and you "choose" to obey social norms in some circumstances, meaning you are more conscious of social norms than the general population. I would have expected these answers from someone with AS.



Chloe33
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25 Jan 2013, 3:39 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers suggest that you have an abstract definition of self. You probably can "choose" what social norms to obey to some degree but a lot of your self is not based on social institutions so you are more likely to break social norms than to obey them. I would expect your answers from an autistic male or from a female who has not been overly pressured to "act like a girl."


That's awesome you read me well from that! I am HFA female and always have been tomboyish. You can find me goin' fishin', target shooting or riding a dirtbike :D Ma tried to get me to act more girlish when i was a child, however to no avail.
This is really accurate!

Thank you for making this thread, it's neat and thank you for reading my answers =)



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25 Jan 2013, 3:40 pm

TheAvatar wrote:
1. I've always felt different from the people around me.
2. I don't connect with people very well at all.
3. Around strangers, I feel awkward at best.
4. I'm passive.
5. I'm a "pleaser"; I can't stand confrontation.
6. I feel best when I'm by myself, but I'd hate to be by myself forever.
7. I often think of things in terms of functions and fundamental properties.
8. I love the physical sciences.
9. I'm always "in my head"; daydreaming, thinking, getting lost in my imagination.
10. I can find very little motivation in something if I'm not deeply interested.
11. Achieving that level of interest is very difficult.
12. Though my intelligence easily shows up on tests designed to detect such, in reality it doesn't always manifest in a tangible way.
13. I'm good at listening, but awful at giving feedback to what I hear.
14. I'm a rational skeptic.
15. I love to learn, but not in a rigid environment; teaching myself in my own time and at my own pace is optimal.
16. I feel people really don't know me well — even my parents to some extent.
17. I love to read.
18. I hate ignorance.
19. However strong they may be, I keep my emotions to myself.
20. I feel I haven't lived up to expectations.


Your statements indicate someone with a fairly abstract sense of self who would be less likely to obey social norms, either accidentally or on purpose. I would have expected this answer from someone on the autism spectrum, but not at the AS level. Basically your statements indicate that you do not have a typical way of seeing yourself. You had a lot of D answers (see my explanation post). Just a few people who have responded have a lot of D answers, which I think indicates more social rejection/ being uncomfortable with social standards than anything.



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25 Jan 2013, 3:42 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers indicate that you are well aware of your social roles and are able to operate in society without consciously having to "choose" to obey social norms. Your behavior is probably appropriate in most situations. I would have guessed your answers more from a typically developed (NT) person.


It's true that I am mainly able to function. I was told that I am mild... For some reason and from seeing the other answers, I was expecting you to say that mine were more "NT". I could be misdiagnosed and I've recently suspected that another diagnosis may suit me better but it's hard for me to say without being a clinical psychologist.



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25 Jan 2013, 3:43 pm

Magnus_Rex wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers indicate that you have more of an abstract concept of self and "choose" whether or not to obey social norms. I would have expected these answers from someone with AS or HFA. BTW I coded number 15. :)

Somehow, I knew you would consider number 15. :lol:

As for the results: you are right when you say I choose which norms I obey. However, I am not sure about my concept of self: I do not even know how the define the word "self" (the best I can think of is "the combination of genetics and life experiences that made me what I am today").


I think that people who have abstract concepts of self probably would have trouble defining "self." Being able to choose to obey norms I would say means that you are more able to function around NTs but probably experience a lot of stress from this because you are too aware of the social expectations. Someone with more "D" answers than you had I would imagine would not experience as much stress because their self has been less influenced by society.



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25 Jan 2013, 3:45 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers suggest that you are someone with a concept of self that is abstract,

So your concept of self is not dependent on socialization,

That's true.

Quote:
but you are able to "choose" to obey social rules

&
Quote:
but it is not so abstract that it would be difficult for you to understand/obey social rules.

I can choose to obey the social rules i know but i don't know some of them automatically.
For example, i didn't realized eye contact was important for other people until i was 25.

Sometimes i know social rules without understanding them, because they feel unnatural and don't seem to make sense.
And if i would choose obey those social rules to please others i would make myself feel miserable.
So i often choose to disobey those social rules.
I use(d to use) ethics (instead of social rules) a lot though.

Quote:
I would expect your answer more from a male with AS. "

I'm a bit tomboyish. :wink:

Quote:
I would guess that you were not overly pressured as a child to "act like a girl.

That's true.



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25 Jan 2013, 3:52 pm

Raziel wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Raziel wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
You have a highly abstract self and are more likely to behave in ways that break social norms. You are more likely to be socially rejected because of behavior that is not socially acceptable or understandable. I was expecting this kind of result from someone with non-AS autism. Your identifications that referenced society came later in your answers, meaning that you think of yourself abstractly first and then as a member of society second. This is the opposite of what I'm expecting from NT answers.


Interesting. :D
There is some truth to it, still I dunno. Not even the student I share an apartment with knows about me being autistic, also not the ppl I'm studying with at university. Just good friends and so on.
But I was very typical autistic as a child and I kept those parts kind of in me.


Most people don't understand what autism is or what an autistic person might be like. "Breaking social norms" could be anything from dressing differently to sometimes hurting people's feelings without meaning to, to sometimes failing to respond when someone speaks or something happens. People often explain "social failures" to be something like the other person isn't interested, misunderstood, etc and will not categorize you as someone with a diagnosis or someone who is weird.


Well true. I just know I've been tested for seven hours by a study about empathy in autism and my social understanding was officially in the normal range. I could just be dx correctly through my very typical childhood (nonverbal etc.), overload and stuff.
Just wanted to mention it.
So for me the trouble with autism is not the social stuff, but it doesn't mean at all that I don't have very typical autistic thinking patterns. The one doesn't necessarily has to do with the other. Just my personal opinion on that.


Well see that's what I'm studying. I guess I'm questioning the whole categorization process of ASDs and how they are mostly performance/behavior based.

I'm not sure I posted this in my explanation, but what I'm now thinking is that B answers are very NT, C answers are very AS, and anyone else should be critical of categorization because they have atypical definitions of self.



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25 Jan 2013, 3:54 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers suggest that you partially have a social, or role-defined self, and partially have a more abstract self. So this indicates that you are someone who sometimes consciously chooses to obey social norms and sometimes you don't. I would expect this answer from either a male with AS or a female on the autism spectrum who was not overly pressured to "act like a girl."


I was very much a tomboy growing up, although when I was little I liked to wear fluffy dresses while climbing trees or digging holes ^.^ I was never pressured to be more lady like and hung out with the boys.


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25 Jan 2013, 3:57 pm

Chloe33 wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers suggest that you have an abstract definition of self. You probably can "choose" what social norms to obey to some degree but a lot of your self is not based on social institutions so you are more likely to break social norms than to obey them. I would expect your answers from an autistic male or from a female who has not been overly pressured to "act like a girl."


That's awesome you read me well from that! I am HFA female and always have been tomboyish. You can find me goin' fishin', target shooting or riding a dirtbike :D Ma tried to get me to act more girlish when i was a child, however to no avail.
This is really accurate!

Thank you for making this thread, it's neat and thank you for reading my answers =)


Thank you for doing it!



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25 Jan 2013, 4:03 pm

deltafunction wrote:
VAGraduateStudent wrote:
Your answers indicate that you are well aware of your social roles and are able to operate in society without consciously having to "choose" to obey social norms. Your behavior is probably appropriate in most situations. I would have guessed your answers more from a typically developed (NT) person.


It's true that I am mainly able to function. I was told that I am mild... For some reason and from seeing the other answers, I was expecting you to say that mine were more "NT". I could be misdiagnosed and I've recently suspected that another diagnosis may suit me better but it's hard for me to say without being a clinical psychologist.


I haven't read as much about aspie women, but I was expecting them to test as NT or close to NT. It's common for aspie women to have a changing identity that can be influenced by society, which is what happens to NT women (NT men too to some degree). Keep in mind that I am only a sociologist, but I would say that at your level, you should identify with whatever you feel suits you. That will probably be more accurate than going by your behavior/functioning level.



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25 Jan 2013, 4:04 pm

VAGraduateStudent wrote:
I think that people who have abstract concepts of self probably would have trouble defining "self." Being able to choose to obey norms I would say means that you are more able to function around NTs but probably experience a lot of stress from this because you are too aware of the social expectations. Someone with more "D" answers than you had I would imagine would not experience as much stress because their self has been less influenced by society.

I presume my answers were mostly "Cs", with a few "As", right? Anyway, you are correct: I am able to function in society, but it is a strange kind of symbiotic mutualism. It is as if I were from a different species: I can live with people, but never really relate to them. It is difficult to describe. Anyway, that is one of the reasons why I want to be a "semi-hermit" adventurer (the other reasons are mostly boredom and insatisfaction with life in society).


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