Why therapy won't work

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But was she happy in herself?

No - answer in bold above.

Her therapist basically told her to be herself, which in my opinion is a good thing

If she met someone who accepted her for herself without judging her for her weight she'd be fine

If she has to change her behaviour and slim down to a certain weight to be accepted by others I'd say their acceptance wasn't worth having

You've misunderstood. She was desperately unhappy with herself, her weight and her problems generally. She wouldn't have gone to a therapist otherwise. I didn't indicate that this was because of her weight, or that she couldn't meet anyone because of her weight. There are plenty of larger people with relationships. The issue was her unhappiness caused her to binge eat (and she put a lot of food away, because her mother owned an old peoples' rest home, so she would have access to tons of food from the kitchen), and that her therapist did nothing to help her sort our her problems, in fact exacerbated them. All for a nice fee I'm sure. Everything she wanted in life, she couldn't get because of her behaviour - which the therapist told her was everyone else's problem. If she didn't mind not having a relationship and not being able to keep friends because of her odd and embarrassing behaviour then all would be hunkydory, but she very much did. If someone goes to a therapist looking for solutions, and all they are told is, you are fine as you are (which clearly she wasn't as it had got her nowhere to date), then that therapist is rubbish.

So what did you do to try and help your friend?

How do you cope with situations where your brain shuts down in therapy? I am able to write about personal stuff, but whenever I am put on the spot of having to talk about it, I kind of shut down and can't do it. Part of it is, I can't think of certain things without crying, and I can't cry in public. So my interactions with a therapist tend to become very shallow and surface-ish, and I suddenly forget what is causing me problems.

^^

I have this exact problem. One time I was flipping out alone in my room and decided to just write it down and email the therapist with it all. When I did this, he was like "Wow... you can.. express yourself!" and sounded very surprised at this.

The psychiatrist who diagnosed me with ASD also said I probably had Schizoid PD based on his observations of me. I really, highly doubt it, to be honest. But I guess therapists aren't used to social anxiety that expresses itself in non-obvious ways (either flat affect when I'm depressed or else bubbly, smiling all the time, and full of humor when not).

I thought it was their job to be able to see through things like this. I guess they don't do it very well. I have met some non-professionals (women usually) who are far more astute at reading me than most therapists are, which makes me wonder if they themselves are socially inept.

Good one! Again answer in the text. Trying to make out I should be some sort of therapist over and above what is in bold below, is highly unrealistic:



Challenging me for the sake of it is pointless, when all I am trying to do is point out where therapists fail people. And for the record, a therapist telling someone to be themselves when they display self-destructive behaviour is not a good thing. You are forgetting I knew her, you did not. That doesn't mean that the responsibility for her life lay with me, that was what she was paying a therapist for. If you advise a friend in good faith and they choose to ignore it, that is up to them.

So I take it she's not your friend any more then?

She was never a close friend. We lost touch many years ago when I went abroad.

Back to therapy...

Well she might be happier now so who knows, the therapist may have been right in the long term

Loud theatrical types tend to get on best with their own type

Please understand I wasn't saying everyone needs to fit in, my point was that assigning blame even if richly deserved really accomplishes nothing. I'm not really saying you are to blame for your condition, but that blaming "normal" people for the way THEY act toward you is pointless. Viewed objectively they may be in the wrong sure, but that is just their nature and blame doesn't really enter into it. They are not going to change, accept that and then whatever coping mechanism you use will be a lot more successful. You'll also have a lot more energy for whatever you choose to do.

I think that was the real breakthrough, just seeing them as an unmovable force that will never be convinced or guilted into changing. At that point you can concentrate on helping yourself cope, however you want.

I am mildly depressed yes but for a variety of reasons. Ergo no medication will work until those reasons are resolved or addressed correctly.

Here is the problem, due to my life long social problems and other quirks I have always had, I suspect an ASD (as have a number of other people I have spoken to over the years, hence how I found my way here to WP), however my official diagnosis is presently anxiety, depression and social anxiety, therefore if I do have Asperger's and there has been a misdiagnosis I presently have no access to any support for such.

The only support I have if I seek help amounts to "If you relax socialising will come to you naturally, here have some antidepressants".

I have been telling therapists and doctors since I was 13 that I have difficulty socialising with people...they either ignore me and fixate on any upset I may be feeling about my social problems or give me the response above.

Also because I don't have an ASD diagnosis if I make a mistake socially or have problems in other ways people think I am being deliberately difficult and either constantly criticise me or reject because of that. They constantly misinterpret everything I say and do and I end up being accused of all sorts when I did nothing wrong at all!

I am so very tired of banging my head against a brick wall. Here comes a long story as I have 37 years to cover but I will try to keep it as concise as possible all the same (I can be a little on the verbose side so my apologies for this!)...

My social issues have been with me for my entire life. It was never a case of my being able to socialise well and make friends but then one day I just got a bit shy and socially anxious for one reason or another.

Yes I was bullied from a young age but I also had other problems that interfered with my ability to make friends. Firstly my development was different to my peers in various ways. I was never tested for Asperger's as it was not in the DSM back then and neither was I tested for Autism as far as I am aware as I had no speech delays. I did, however, test as having advanced development in a number of areas such as moral development and was considered to be exceptionally bright or extremely intelligent by my schools and colleges. On the down side though I also tested as being emotionally immature, over-sensitive and too idealistic...apparently.

This made me stand out like a sore thumb among my peers who bullied me chronically because of my level of ability.

Add to the mix that I had a quirky unusual personality and well, it was basically a recipe for complete social disaster.

My social problems were starting to show when I was a young child as my teachers were concerned about the fact that I would often play alone rather than with the other children. There were two reasons for this. Firstly I was often contented playing by myself and did not want to socialise at that time and secondly when I did try to socialise I was rejected by my peers anyway and ridiculed for any social mistakes I made. My teachers would force me to mix anyway and this would distress me.

I was mocked for many reasons and these included my level of ability (as stipulated above); the fact that I had a twitch in my nose at times and the other children and adults thought I was pulling faces at them (I was not, I could not control the twitch at all. Fortunately I no longer get said twitch but I still have other ones (ie a need to keep sniffing at times and a need to make a grunting sound with my throat), that I have more control over than when I was a child and can mask anyway, so I just ignore them); my tendency to prefer collecting bank forms over playing with dolls; my difficulty with reading certain social cues and my difficulty in knowing what I was supposed to be doing socially at certain times (Ie I still don't know how I am supposed to approach a group if I wish to socialise with them and even with individuals I have trouble knowing how to start conversations, keep them going and/or end them) and so on....

I also had other issues related to my sensitivity which was not just emotional. I could not wear wool or certain wool mixes for example as it was painful against my skin (irritated me). Eventually I requested that my parents take me shopping for my own clothes instead of buying them for me. This too was interpreted as my being deliberately difficult but what was I supposed to do? Just sit there and suffer in silence? Oh dear, I think not.....! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

I also requested to have all the labels (tags) cut out of my clothing and so on.

I was prone to bad tantrums (as they were called) especially when things like my scoobydoo viewing was altered or disrupted (my mother said if the time of the program was changed I'd have a 'tantrum' (or more accurately a screaming fit) from hell. This got me labelled as a problem child and the social services wanted me to see a child psychologist at 7 years old...my mother would not take me.

There were more issues but I can't list them all so I have given examples of the most important ones.

Over the years my social anxiety developed because of constant bullying, an inability to make and maintain friendships, constant criticism and generally being treated like I was being whiny and difficult because of my sensitivities. It has basically amounted to years of unintended torture by people because of their bloody ignorance.

Yes I am a bit angry about it. Please excuse me.

In my teens I did develop depression because of my circumstances and made the mistake of reporting the fact that I was feeling sad to my dr. They put me on antidepressants and referred me for therapy during which I got the same damned response I stipulated above...again. Then again with another therapist, then again with another one......

I got fed up with seeing therapists.

A short time after I did find myself in a short lived relationship and had a child. I got postnatal depression and was put on more antidepressant and sent back to yet another therapist who was as useful as the last. During this time I also did develop a brief drinking problem (to help with my social issues...which it did not as although it obliterated my social nervousness it only made my social behaviour even weirder as a result. Ie As I have never been able to tell if a man finds me attractive or is flirting with me, after a few vodkas I decided to run my own experiment. Basically I walked around a pub asking random men if they found me attractive and tried to observe their body language as I did so! Apparently I asked the wrong person and the next thing I know someone's girlfriend had punched me in the face. Well really! There was no need to do this as all she had to do was ask me not to speak to her boyfriend and I would have apologised and left. I had no idea the person I was talking to was someone she was dating in the first place and quite frankly I was conducting an experiment not making a pass at the man! Some people's behaviour astounds me...! Good grief)

I eventually stopped drinking completely but sometime after that I developed crippling headaches at the front of my head which were bilateral. They were diagnosed as tension headaches and I was once again sent for therapy etc. I suspected that the bilateral headaches at the front were due to a sinus infection, especially as I could not breathe through my nose. I spent 2 years arguing with my drs over them and asking for a referral to an ENT. They would not refer me and called me a hypochondriac after blood tests came back normal. They would not exam my sinuses...I asked and was told no. Eventually someone did refer me but only after I pushed and pushed and he had rolled his eyes at me like I was wasting his time. I was not wasting anyone's time..in fact I was quite correct as a physical examination and CT scan done by the ENT revealed a chronic and severe infection that needed surgery to resolve (I also had a bent septum and there was a structural problem stopping the sinus cavities from draining).

So my drs were apparently idiots. I did not tell them this, but I most certainly did think it!

Since that time I have not been able to get a correct diagnosis about anything even though I have changed surgeries/drs offices repeatedly. In fact I am wondering if the drs insult of my suffering from hypochondria (when I clearly was NOT) is still on my records somewhere....

Anyway:

1 I also get another type of headache (which started when I was pregnant and never completely stopped appearing). They are left sided, thumping, incredibly painful and come with vertigo, visual disturbance, nausea and vomiting. My drs insist these are tension headaches, I say they are migraines!

2 I have long running sleep issues. Basically yes I can get some insomnia as I can find it hard to fall asleep (busy brain always thinking but not always worrying...just pondering, musing and chatting away about things that interest it much of the time unless something is really majorly stressing me out) but I can get around that by sleeping with the TV on (which I always have to do anyway...otherwise I cannot settle to sleep at all....it is an essential part of my bedtime routine and has been for years) but what causes me more problems when it comes to functioning is my circadian rhythm. I basically cannot sleep at a normal time at night (never have been able to...ever!) and tend to find I sleep best between 4am and midday.

However, unfortunately, my drs either think it is anxiety or depression related (I cannot get them to understand I am just nocturnal and have my peak energy time during the night instead of the day....) or insist I can just retrain my sleep time with a little sleep hygiene practice. It does not work...even sleep pills will only work temporarily before my brain insists on going back to its usual bed time. I personally think I may have DSPD (Delayed sleep phase disorder) but will they refer me to a sleep specialist to check...no they will not. They would only give me more antidepressants which I will not take because they make me ill (the physical side effects are awful and make me really sick and they make my moods spin around like a yo yo...I have no way of being able to control them or keep up with them on those things! Those tablets are horrible!).

it is also complicated as if I allow myself to get sleep deprived by trying to sleep at the time of night that society expects it can trigger those awful left sided headaches and I am not able to function at all with those. I tend to need to go and lie in a dark room for about 3 days and can do nothing during that time really. So I can't risk not getting enough sleep...

So I am now stressed out and feel backed into a corner. I am on disability which I get due to not being able to cope with socialising and change but they are expecting me to recover from my social problems etc and go back to a normal day shift mainstream job.

They are setting me up for absolute failure and the nhs is quite frankly incompetent!

Firstly I always had a problem with day jobs due to my sleep schedule. Secondly my headaches are still being a b***h at times (although I have managed to reduce their frequency with lifestyle changes such as going on the paleo diet) so I would have to keep calling sick and thirdly my social issues are not just going to go away when my shyness fades.

I know the latter because:

1 I had no social anxiety when I was drunk...it still went horribly wrong all the same

2 I am not socially anxious on the internet but I still get chased off forum boards because my posting style irritates people

3 I still cant read if certain social cues etc

4 I still have all the same issues I had growing up...they never went away not even with medications.

5 As an introvert I cannot handle constant socialisation even if I am not nervous around people. It tires me and I lose out on my hobby time which upsets me. On the bright side I no longer collect bank forms and prefer to study or cross stitch instead these days so at least my interests are a bit more normal now. On saying that it is still hard to find someone to converse with about breeds of shark, paleolithic man's lifestyle and diet and even my cross stitching sometimes as I seem to be a little too passionate about my hobbies for most people's tastes.

6 My social anxiety only occurs in certain situations ie when dating someone new, at a job interview, when giving a presentation (but only if I am not confident about my material otherwise I am fine) and when trying to make a friend (which I rarely do as I don't know how to go about it...I usually just wait for someone to attach themselves to me and tell me I am in a friendship) and I still have social problems. Also my social anxiety was made worse by antidepressants and is now starting to fade back down to its original level, which was only slightly annoying rather than being right in face like it was when I was on mirtazapine (for example). As young child before the bullying started, I had little social anxiety and would just barge up to anyone and start rattling on about my interests, especially as I had a very large vocabulary from a very young age (I do so like to use it as well). It was ok, back then people thought it was cute. They used to tell my mother we had been having the most fascinating conversation, although i did tend to talk to adults rather than my peers.

7 I am also not easily embarrassed so I have a hard time connecting with many others with social anxiety. My fear is bullying starting all over again (it follows me around even in my adult life) and being told off for things I have not done by people as I have had a lifetime of it (ie see the pulling faces example regarding my twitch above). Embarrassment often has little to do with as I am not an easily embarrassed person and any feelings of embarrassment I do get are very mild. Ie I am prone to being clumsy (hence the name bumble...it was the nick name my father gave as a child, whilst the other one was natterbox because of my tendency to rattle on (usually about my favourite topic at the time) and my verbosity), however I can be amused by this as long as it does not cause any serious harm to anyone. As an example when I used to walk into a china shop people used to actually panic! Sometimes they would even ask if I would prefer to stay outside and wait....I was always most amused by their reaction although I felt it to be a little over the top! I'd go into the china shop anyway....

Anyway, over the years I have built up some frustration and right now I feel somewhat trapped by my drs incompetence and societies insistence that I get over something I have had problems with my whole life.

Ergo I am feeling a little sad and tired.

Unfortunately medications won't help as they do not change the situation.

I am now seeking my own solutions instead. I have resolved a few things (ie got the headaches to reduce and am thinking about either insisting they let me work from home or find a night job instead of trying to change my circadian rhythm) but I still have some stuff to work on.

I am upset with the psychology and medical professions. Before their tablets I was more able to function. For at least the last 10 years that I was on them they caused me such severe side effects that much (but not all) of the time, I was hardly able to function (even to pursue my hobbies) in my day to day life let alone cope with anything else. I could hardly get out of bed some days it was so bad due to flu like symptoms, worsening of my headaches, excessive sleepiness and a whole load of psychiatric symptoms (ie panic attacks, feeling disconnected from my surroundings and so on) that have long gone since I pulled off them a year ago.

I no longer experience such symptoms as palpitations, panic attacks, feeling disconnected and so on and I don't really want them back...they were not very nice! Neither have I completely lost interest in my passions, I am not feeling suicidal and I don't feel worthless or hate myself so do not wish to spend an hour in a therapists office being given advice and print outs about such things.

I do still feel a bit trapped right now though and so very upset with my lack of any kind of social contact (I do so crave the companionship of a romantic partner as as much as I hate general social chit chat I do like having people in my life I am bonded with all the same) and the fact that I suspect there has been a misdiagnosis (again).

Unfortunately I have no family who can help, I have no friends except a few people I chat to now and then online, and I will not turn to support services for their assistance as they are as bad as the therapists.

Never mind I will find a creative way around at least some of the problems even I do still feel I am doomed socially. I am just tired at the moment and feeling a little rundown.

Sorry for the really long post and please excuse any typos.

It's true. We need to act as a tribe or we won't survive. We're all playing by their rules....

Hi Bumble,

OK, let's take the bull by the horns, so to speak. You are absolutely 100% entitled to an ASD assessment. Please use this information to go to your GP (ask for a double appointment if necessary):

http://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/tests/AQ10.pdf is the brief screening questionnaire based on the longer AQ50, intended for use for GPs. Complete it and take it to your appointment.

http://www.nice.org.uk/CG142 is the NHS NICE (National Institute for Health & Clinical Excellence) guidelines that must be followed. Print off relevant bits to take to your GP and insist on referral. They cannot refuse you or fob you off with things like "we don't have anything in our area for that" as you can go for an out of area assessment if necessary.

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsand ... /DH_115115 is the Autism Strategy for adults and is supposedly legally binding.

And I also refer you to this, just in case you need to go for out of area assessment:



Don't give up. Hope this helps.