Should we concentrate ourselves in particular locations?

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Should we concentrate ourselves in particular locations?
Yes. 22%  22%  [ 8 ]
Yes, let's start picking some metros and cities. 31%  31%  [ 11 ]
No. 19%  19%  [ 7 ]
No, bad idea. 28%  28%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 36

briankelley
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26 Mar 2013, 9:27 pm

Having lived in the Seattle area before, I found it to be a much more comfortable environment with more eclectic people and eccentricity or being a little different something that's appreciated more than frowned upon. The slogan for Portland, Oregon is, "Keep Portland Weird" so that's pretty self explanatory. Seattle is expensive though as well as the East Side; Kirkland, Bellevue and Redmond (where Microsoft is located). I'm actually going to be moving to Everett, WA which is about 25 miles north of Seattle. But it's kind of a mini-Seattle. In addition to the vast and wonderful nature there I love so much, I know it to be a much more AS friendly kind of place. And it's also wonderfully overcast a lot of the time, which is appealing to us brightness sensitive folks. I've found very reasonable rents in Everett.

But even still, I'll probably be spending most of my time hiding out in the woods :)
A forest is the very best location for AS people imho. We should be like those wood elves in the Hobbit who have a jolly time in the forest and disappear in a poof when humans come stumbling by.



Anomiel
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26 Mar 2013, 9:42 pm

auntblabby wrote:
ShelbyGt500 wrote:
In the western United States, I would start that list with the Seattle, Oregon and Phoenix, Arizona metro areas.

not all of us are financially successful sufficient to be able to live in high-cost cities such as seattle. phoenix is too morally atavistic/hot for a lot of us. most of oregon is too much like eastern washington for comfort.



I think if we would make this into a big project instead, maybe choosing a lower populated area to start with would be easier (but in proximity to a bigger city). Smaller towns are often cheaper, with access to nature, and they have more potential to shape the growth to our liking from the start. But would have to be somewhere friendly and not poor, and without strong hierarchical thinking or too much religious influence and that might be hard to find. We would become a bigger percentage of the population there right away.
And maybe choosing another country than the US, one who's government already have good policies and good safetynets for autistic people so we don't have to start with reforming that...



Last edited by Anomiel on 26 Mar 2013, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ShelbyGt500
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26 Mar 2013, 9:43 pm

Anomiel wrote:
ShelbyGt500 wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
What a great idea! If enough inhabitants have similar needs they are more likely to be met. That's how we ended up with a world that's already shaped after NT-needs after all, majority rule.


Exactly! If you gather enough members of a global minority, you end up with a local minority. And, I believe it can be done in a way that is beneficial to all, including NTs.


Yes a more inclusive world, on all levels, benefits all. Though the ruling class - so to speak - have to make some room which might initially feel unbeneficial for them, it's like that when any minority gain rights.
That might be an unforseen problem though, as we don't have a big movement yet that would be able to push back if NTs would become illogical about the whole thing. Sorry to bring it up...


Negative points that are factual are good to bring up. That is why we need to choose wisely and pick areas that are open to progress. And, areas that are culturally rational in a fundamental way.



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26 Mar 2013, 9:44 pm

Anomiel wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
ShelbyGt500 wrote:
In the western United States, I would start that list with the Seattle, Oregon and Phoenix, Arizona metro areas.

not all of us are financially successful sufficient to be able to live in high-cost cities such as seattle. phoenix is too morally atavistic/hot for a lot of us. most of oregon is too much like eastern washington for comfort.



I think if we would make this into a big project instead, maybe choosing a lower populated area to start with would be easier (but in proximity to a bigger city). Smaller towns are often cheaper, and they have more potential to shape the growth to our liking from the start. But would have to be somewhere friendly and not poor, and without strong hierarchical thinking or too much religious influence and that might be hard to find. We would become a bigger percentage of the population there right away.
And maybe choosing another country than the US, one who's government already have good policies and good safetynets for autistic people so we don't have to start with reforming that...


We can do both!



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26 Mar 2013, 9:48 pm

briankelley wrote:
Having lived in the Seattle area before, I found it to be a much more comfortable environment with more eclectic people and eccentricity or being a little different something that's appreciated more than frowned upon. The slogan for Portland, Oregon is, "Keep Portland Weird" so that's pretty self explanatory. Seattle is expensive though as well as the East Side; Kirkland, Bellevue and Redmond (where Microsoft is located). I'm actually going to be moving to Everett, WA which is about 25 miles north of Seattle. But it's kind of a mini-Seattle. In addition to the vast and wonderful nature there I love so much, I know it to be a much more AS friendly kind of place. And it's also wonderfully overcast a lot of the time, which is appealing to us brightness sensitive folks. I've found very reasonable rents in Everett.

But even still, I'll probably be spending most of my time hiding out in the woods :)
A forest is the very best location for AS people imho. We should be like those wood elves in the Hobbit who have a jolly time in the forest and disappear in a poof when humans come stumbling by.


In my family, we had 1000 acre farm with a cabin on a lake in the middle of it. I moved out there for a summer when I was in graduate school and I acclimated very well to being with only my cats in the animals in the woods. I understand we're talking about. A year ago, when I realize that I'm autistic, I considered moving out of the city and buying a place way off in the woods to live the rest of my life as a recluse. The only thing that stopped me is that I realized I needed to do more for younger people like me. So, here I am.



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26 Mar 2013, 9:53 pm

auntblabby wrote:
if i could afford any of those astronomical rents, my aspieness must not be an issue at all. but it is and i simply can't afford such, now or ever. so greater hooterville is where i must stay.


Your point is very relevant, not only because of you personally, but also others like you. Originally, I'm from an Iowa hick factory town. If we do this successfully, we should be able to create a culture that provides employment for a broad spectrum of autistics. Also, by nurturing some willing cultures, we create a cultural segue to affect other cultures in a positive way. So, perhaps we will have a metaphor of trickle down economics. That is, we bring a set of metro areas up to speed, then spread out from there. I'm not suggesting that we should create concentration camps were isolated retreats. I'm suggesting that we go to the fertile ground, plant our seeds, then slowly but surely convert the planet to entirely fertile ground and watch what we have planted spread by itself. So, if you live way off the beaten path, you are not forgotten and you are not going to be neglected. That said, I'm just one guy, and I'm sure this will all be done by a large committee. Luckily, we are all connected at the hip by her autism. So, everyone is motivated to keep the boat afloat.



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26 Mar 2013, 9:56 pm

So, as they say "signs, signs, everywhere signs." How do you folks think about having the symbol of an autism friendly zone be something like the autism puzzle piece with a green circle around it. That is, the international autism friendly zone symbol. What do you think?



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26 Mar 2013, 9:58 pm

ShelbyGt500 wrote:
We can do both!



It would be the city-aspies and the town-aspies and the forest-aspies, with resources flowing from one place to another :D
forest-aspie reporting for duty :salut:



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26 Mar 2013, 10:08 pm

Does anyone think I'd say "no"? Of course I support the idea!

I will point out that the rent problem is real, but that could be overcome if there are Aspie landlords who come on board. That would reduce the cost of living issue.

Heck, if life had played out differently, I would want to live in Seattle or Phoenix.


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26 Mar 2013, 10:10 pm

Anomiel wrote:
ShelbyGt500 wrote:
We can do both!



It would be the city-aspies and the town-aspies and the forest-aspies, with resources flowing from one place to another :D
forest-aspie reporting for duty :salut:


Because we have the tremendous differences we do and also the individuality's we have, your prospective is absolutely necessary. There is nothing wrong with choosing some rural enclaves along with the large metro areas. That said, we should choose wisely. I'm originally from an Iowa hick factory town, which would certainly not be place to start. And neither would the rural town depicted in the movie "Deliverance" be a good choice. Do you have any suggestions? If not, no problem, your perspective is very well taken.



redrobin62
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26 Mar 2013, 10:24 pm

"I'm suggesting that we go to the fertile ground, plant our seeds, then slowly but surely convert the planet to entirely fertile ground..."

Back in the 1910's, the Russians had this beautiful, agrarian idea that people should be equal, everyone should be communal and work off the land and benefit from it. The idea took hold and they called it communism. It slowly progressed from "you should work on a farm" to "you will be working on a farm or else!" Eventually, personally privacy went the way of the dodo bird, and all those who would raise their tongues against the leaders could kiss their ass goodbye.

The Khmer Rouge of Cambodia thought that the Soviet model was too weak. They decided to up the ante and force those who weren't like them into the killing fields. By hook or by crook, they were going to create their own perfect society , and if you didn't fit in (intellectuals, etc) you were killed. As a result, 1.7 million people died in those fields from 1975 - 1979.

Any society based on non-inclusion of others is a failed society. You couldn't, for instance, tell someone they can't apply for a job or get an apartment in Autism City because they're not autistic. That's just discrimination and it's wrong. History has shown that, humans may be well-intentioned, but we often need checks and balances in place so we don't go overboard. This is yin & yang, black & white, republican & democrat, Catholic & Muslim, etc. When the Catholic Church/The Holy Roman Empire ruled the land, their Inquisition killed millions of innocent people. It lessened as the church's power diminished. The same will happen eventually in the Middle East but not in our lifetime. In the same vein, I do believe that all-inclusive North Korea will be liberated in the next ten years.

On a more personal note, I wouldn't live in an all-inclusive Autistic community. We can learn from NT's and NT's can learn from us. Also, with my strong predilection for ethnic cuisine (Chinese, Indian, Italian, Pakistani, Thai, Vietnamese, South American, West Indian, etc) I would feel unfulfilled, cheated and isolated in an all-Autism community.



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26 Mar 2013, 10:25 pm

ShelbyGt500 wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
ShelbyGt500 wrote:
We can do both!



It would be the city-aspies and the town-aspies and the forest-aspies, with resources flowing from one place to another :D
forest-aspie reporting for duty :salut:


Because we have the tremendous differences we do and also the individuality's we have, your prospective is absolutely necessary. There is nothing wrong with choosing some rural enclaves along with the large metro areas. That said, we should choose wisely. I'm originally from an Iowa hick factory town, which would certainly not be place to start. And neither would the rural town depicted in the movie "Deliverance" be a good choice. Do you have any suggestions? If not, no problem, your perspective is very well taken.


I don't know the US good enough to be able to offer any suggestions I'm afraid :(



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26 Mar 2013, 10:33 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
"I'm suggesting that we go to the fertile ground, plant our seeds, then slowly but surely convert the planet to entirely fertile ground..."

Back in the 1910's, the Russians had this beautiful, agrarian idea that people should be equal, everyone should be communal and work off the land and benefit from it. The idea took hold and they called it communism. It slowly progressed from "you should work on a farm" to "you will be working on a farm or else!" Eventually, personally privacy went the way of the dodo bird, and all those who would raise their tongues against the leaders could kiss their ass goodbye.

The Khmer Rouge of Cambodia thought that the Soviet model was too weak. They decided to up the ante and force those who weren't like them into the killing fields. By hook or by crook, they were going to create their own perfect society , and if you didn't fit in (intellectuals, etc) you were killed. As a result, 1.7 million people died in those fields from 1975 - 1979.

Any society based on non-inclusion of others is a failed society. You couldn't, for instance, tell someone they can't apply for a job or get an apartment in Autism City because they're not autistic. That's just discrimination and it's wrong. History has shown that, humans may be well-intentioned, but we often need checks and balances in place so we don't go overboard. This is yin & yang, black & white, republican & democrat, Catholic & Muslim, etc. When the Catholic Church/The Holy Roman Empire ruled the land, their Inquisition killed millions of innocent people. It lessened as the church's power diminished. The same will happen eventually in the Middle East but not in our lifetime. In the same vein, I do believe that all-inclusive North Korea will be liberated in the next ten years.

On a more personal note, I wouldn't live in an all-inclusive Autistic community. We can learn from NT's and NT's can learn from us. Also, with my strong predilection for ethnic cuisine (Chinese, Indian, Italian, Pakistani, Thai, Vietnamese, South American, West Indian, etc) I would feel unfulfilled, cheated and isolated in an all-Autism community.


RedRobbin, I don't think the OP is seriously suggesting the situation you're implying above, and I don't think OP is opening up such a slippery slope. Aspies are discriminated against, look at the "Work" forum (which we both frequent). Just because more Aspies would be in a given place, I don't think that leads to a slippery slope.


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26 Mar 2013, 10:33 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
Back in the 1910's, the Russians had this beautiful, agrarian idea that people should be equal, everyone should be communal and work off the land and benefit from it. The idea took hold and they called it communism..


Ahh the usual american view of communism as the ultimate boogeyman, preferably brought up any time anyone wants to change anything :lol: I don't know what Shelby's intentions are, but in my mind this is more akin to socialism if anything. Do you know which country is built on that? A country that takes much better care of their autistics and anyone needing help than the US could ever dream of? Sweden. At least before the current rightwing government. :roll:

I have seen noone talk about it being solely autistics or banning NTs.
And I said "town-aspies", not "aspie-towns".

And it's me being a bit more inclined to that than the OP ;) I think it's the OP's ideas we should take more seriously.



Last edited by Anomiel on 26 Mar 2013, 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ShelbyGt500
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26 Mar 2013, 10:37 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
"I'm suggesting that we go to the fertile ground, plant our seeds, then slowly but surely convert the planet to entirely fertile ground..."

Back in the 1910's, the Russians had this beautiful, agrarian idea that people should be equal, everyone should be communal and work off the land and benefit from it. The idea took hold and they called it communism. It slowly progressed from "you should work on a farm" to "you will be working on a farm or else!" Eventually, personally privacy went the way of the dodo bird, and all those who would raise their tongues against the leaders could kiss their ass goodbye.

The Khmer Rouge of Cambodia thought that the Soviet model was too weak. They decided to up the ante and force those who weren't like them into the killing fields. By hook or by crook, they were going to create their own perfect society , and if you didn't fit in (intellectuals, etc) you were killed. As a result, 1.7 million people died in those fields from 1975 - 1979.

Any society based on non-inclusion of others is a failed society. You couldn't, for instance, tell someone they can't apply for a job or get an apartment in Autism City because they're not autistic. That's just discrimination and it's wrong. History has shown that, humans may be well-intentioned, but we often need checks and balances in place so we don't go overboard. This is yin & yang, black & white, republican & democrat, Catholic & Muslim, etc. When the Catholic Church/The Holy Roman Empire ruled the land, their Inquisition killed millions of innocent people. It lessened as the church's power diminished. The same will happen eventually in the Middle East but not in our lifetime. In the same vein, I do believe that all-inclusive North Korea will be liberated in the next ten years.

On a more personal note, I wouldn't live in an all-inclusive Autistic community. We can learn from NT's and NT's can learn from us. Also, with my strong predilection for ethnic cuisine (Chinese, Indian, Italian, Pakistani, Thai, Vietnamese, South American, West Indian, etc) I would feel unfulfilled, cheated and isolated in an all-Autism community.


All of the examples you cite are valid within their context. I am not a relativist. There are certainly general principles to be learned from individual events and arrays of events. That is why I am suggesting that we concentrate ourselves in areas increasing our relative numbers, without creating isolated areas that approximate ghettos or concentration camps. I fully agree that the ghettos of Eastern Europe provided a separatism that spawned a cultural division. And, I further agree the concentration in the ghettos made annihilation convenient. What I'm suggesting is that we choose areas, be they large or small, where we can create cultural change and freely mingle as a full part of those communities. Once we create cultural change in one place, we have an example and a prototype for others. The ultimate goal, which would likely occur long after I'm dead, is that the cultural change would be virtually everywhere. And, for people who are born in areas that are not the SD friendly, they would have plenty of alternatives. If you disagree or have a different perspective, please let me know. Your concerns are certainly worth discussing. Thanks for your comment.



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26 Mar 2013, 10:48 pm

All of this talk about planting our seeds is making me horny.