It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?

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^^^
lol Well, I'm sure most people's ex's think they are horrible people. I wouldn't go by that.

No, I think I actually am/was. I think she's right that I'm either narcissist or borderline and not aspies.

I make ok first impressions, but the more people see of me, the less they like of me. I have self-esteem, identity instability, and mood issues that cause bizarre behavior. I'm also kind of hollow. My ex said she realized that I don't have much of a personality at all. And besides this, most of what she said was confirmed by a member of my immediate family when I brought it up.

Well, I don;t know you enough to say one way or another about that. You seem concerned about doing the right thing which would indicate goodness to me but ofcourse it's hard to tell online. It's possible to have one of those personality disorders and not be a horrible person. Also, it seems like you have something similar to AS in any case, in addition to your personality disorder. Sensory issues and motor skill problems indicate something neuro-developmental, for example. NVLD is neuro-developmental and affects your ability to interact with people. So either way you have something developmentally wrong with your brain that affects your processing of social situations.

You also sound like you have depression , or emotional issues at least , and should be treated for it/them.

I hope I didn't seem insulting by just saying that, I'll try to explain my view using your list.

1. unstable sense of self / confused identity
-It is common for many people to feel this way at some point or another, sometimes it is viewed as a mid-life crisis, or trying to pull together parts of themselves to come to a conclusion of their identity (such as people coming out of the closet, finding purpose in their life, etc.)

2. feeling like a hollow person
-Can be related to the above, but also your self-esteem issues.

3. eliminate constantly shifting personality
-What about your personality shifts? Is there a cause that you can sense from it?

4. learning to have consistent perceptions of people and situations and consistent rules and values
-I would try writing down lists of rules from different parts of your life and seeing if you can make sense of them or find similarities to them, they don't have to be actual rules, but also social rules.

5. how a healthy/non-exploitative friendship or relationship is supposed to work (I have no idea)
-This is fairly common with NT-AS relationships/friendships, it can be hard to tell when too much is too much. Communication and trying to assess the balance of give and take are the most important here.

6. how to eliminate constant negative subtext and poor self-esteem that causes me to hate myself and everyone within glaring distance
-Its very easy to fall into self-loathing and pessimism when you are under a lot of stress, do you have less outlets than you normally do? After being rather hateful and angry for about a month I realized that I didn't have many "sanctuaries" anymore and had to create some (my grandmother passed away, lost my videogame login key, had no free time, hadn't seen any of my friends in almost two months, etc.).

7. eliminate always worrying about the worst and obsessing over it.
-This can be hard to overcome, I find it best to try to logically think of outcomes and how likely they will be. My therapist gave me a Automatic Negative Thoughts (ANT) worksheet, which doesn't always apply, but helps me put worries in perspective. I've found that I usually worry for nothing and sometimes outcomes can be the exact opposite of what I predict.

8. Stupid depression / suicidal impulses
-Therapy is about the only thing I can suggest, and anti-depression meds do help my wife with a low dose of Celexa. I am trying to avoid any meds if possible.

Many of the issues don't have to be associated with a personality disorder or be outside of AS, and most are common to humans in general on varrying scales. A good book I would suggest is "Solutions for Adults with Asperger Syndrome: Maximizing the benefits, Minimizing the Drawbacks to Achieve Success", I'm re-reading it right now. Sometimes the stories can hurt when you identify with them and see little or nothing wrong with it, but that is why the book it there, for self-improvement.

Also feeling excessive guilt and like you're a bad person can be a symptom of depression. I feel like I'm a horrible person when I'm depressed. My guess is you're a good person because you care about doing what's right and because you are capable of feeling guilt. If you were a psychopath or imo a really evil person,you couldn't feel guilt at all,you wouldn't care about being a good person. I believe your depression and emotional problems cause you to feel like a bad person- and talking to your ex doesn't help- she's probably not the most objective observer of you.

Did you put the smiles in? (Sometimes they just show up:-)

In any case, it is not a smiley thing to treat someone badly. I have figured out the explanation for these 'smiles' since presumably you were smiling at least within when you were keying cars, so there must have been a payoff that was somehow pleasurable.

If you really want the help you say you do, then I suggest to be on the alert, as real help in a difficult situation can come in strange ways. What I see from reading this thread and some other messages of yours in the time I have been here is a possible avoidance of finding a solution to your suffering and the suffering you are causing others in that you may be using the pervasive seeking of a solution to avoid actually finding a solution. Many people do this in some way or other, and I have done it myself. As you are obviously (in some ways) very smart, you will probably understand what I mean by this and be able to look and see if it actually applies to you and your particular situation.

I do not suggest you continue keying cars and other such behavior, whatever it may be, as each time you release tension in such a way you are reinforcing in yourself the tendency to do so again. So I suggest to choose a different kind of behavior such as visiting some lonely old people in an old age home or volunteering in some other way to help people who genuinely need you. Also, if in the behavior such as keying cars the use of alcohol was involved, as it probably often is,, I do suggest some kind of substance abuse program.

The seeking of a diagnosis seems to me to be a superficial way of addressing the particular problems you have, Whatever in the world causes you to think that finding this or that particular diagnosis will lead you to the solution to your problem is completely beyond me, and I find it difficult to believe that you yourself actually think this will really help you. It seems more like a way of patterning the world around you in order to avoid facing the fact of whoever you are and simply feeling it, however uncomfortable it may be.. If this is so, then you are having a conversation that on some level may not be real, as you are using it to avoid actually facing something in yourself that it is necessary to feel, however painful, in order to be your genuine self and then ultimately, little by little, through self acceptance, become more and more able able to make a real connection with others. If the actual aim of asking for help but never finding it is to avoid finding help, then those who are trying to help you are being duped. If the aim is for them to be duped, then this is similar to keying a car. I do not know if this is the truth of your situation, but if it is, then it is likely that you will see it right away as it will immediately hit the mark. The sad thing for a person who does this, and I have done it myself, is that there is some kind of immediate satisfaction, but I was duping myself without even knowing it----until someone pointed it out to me. Then I did see it, as the behavior was so obvious.

Sometimes a simple idea, a new way of looking at something can change a person's life because it puts him on a different track, and I do believe that on some level you are engaging in this pattern of wanting a diagnosis but never getting the right one (yes, but:-) as a mean to have real interaction and not just the never fulfilling pattern of asking for a solution and yet never getting one. You said you do not have repetitive behavior, and yes, there is for me, when I read what you have written, a feeling of something hollow. I am so sorry you are having this feeling of hollowness at times, but life can be very interesting. The story is not over yet, and it is amazing what can come next, but it may be necessary to consciously participate from a different angle.

Finally, you have been around the block with some therapists it seems and gotten quite a few seemingly wrong diagnosis so it must be obvious to you that many of these folks are dim bulbs, so, to mix metaphors, I do not see why you continue barking up that tree.

^^^
LittleBee, I think you may be thinking of someone else. I don;t think Tyrion keys cars...I never saw anything like that in his posts. There is someone else who posts on the member's only sub-forum who talks about throwing stones at police stations and committing various crimes and asks why people won't press changes against him. That's a different person.

What about any of the internal thought process & sensory perception things that can't be observed from an outsiders perspective? Only you would know if you do/don't do any of these things, especially the thought process things, and things like creating personas to hide behind like an actor as a coping mechanism etc.

People get diagnosed with both autism and ADHD because it has been recognized that the mutual exclusion described is far from accurate. The DSM-5 eliminates the exclusion due to current understanding.

You've mentioned you did handflapping on a video recording as a child, if I recall well. A history of RBs is enough. Adults often stop doing RBs.

I guess many of the traits and thoughts you mentioned can be both ASD and PD related. I truly believe that higher IQ autistics can really have many PD traits on top of their ASD. In fact, most of their impairments seemingly might come from PD traits like borderline, narcissism, anxiety, paranoia, depression, OCD, even antisocial.

I can't tell you what to do but what I did was looking up a great deal of information from different sources like this site, books, internet, real life. I carefully identified my traits and compared them to what others had and vice verse. I'm still not sure about the exact nature of my traits but I'm fairly certain they are best described as 'having mild autism with some resulting PD issues'. Even my PTSD-like symptoms can be tracked back to it (this is a recent discovery, after two years of coming across AS).

Also, I wouldn't trust any of my ex's, if I were you. I would rather rely on a best friend or my own resources. Parents, family are more reliable imo if you speak about individual traits, rather then generalizing them as diagnostic criteria. Btw, I have experienced the emotional torture of being in a relationship. Emotional instability was by far an utterly modest term to describe it. And yes, I have felt intense guilt over some of my (presumed) bad behaviors. Nevertheless, I'm sure by now that my ex wasn't exactly innocent in doing me wrong.

He mentioned he has done this in the original message at the beginning of this thread, and someone quoted him saying this on the first page. Also, I found another message on a different thread where he tells about doing this to cars that did not have a parking permit parked in the lot of his complex when he comes home from a hard days work and cannot find a spot to park his own car.. Actually a lot of people might do something like this if they thought they could get away with it. I did not read this message at the time I gave my reply, and it now seems there was some kind of rational or other for that particular keying, but what I wrote still stands, as the main gist of my message was about on one level possibly not really even wanting a solution, and it still seems that way to me.

To Daydreamer84, what does participating here on Wrong Planet mean to you, if you care to share? To me it is a very serious thing (though there can be humor, too), as so many people are suffering. I would not want anyone to go though the horrible suffering I have been through or to keep trying to get help but just knocking his or her head against the wall, especially a talented gifted person who is so inherently smart who has so much to give, who needs love and whose birthright it is to be able to love..

The original message he wrote which was and at present time is at the beginning of this thread.:

"PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:44 am Post subject: It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how? Reply with quote
I wonder if there is anyone here who has been diagnosed with Asperger's but later found out it was a misdiagnosis--and they actually had something else.

I had a long conversation with an ex who basically convinced me that I meet the criteria for a personality disorder. Actually, it made perfect sense once she explained it to me, and I was only dimly aware of some of the behaviors. I had suspected it before but then dismissed it. Now, I realize I was correct. Even my autistic behaviors in childhood now make sense as a response to a traumatic incident. Forget PDD.

Unfortunately, my psychologist is of the opinion that, once someone has ASD, then personality disorder diagnoses aren't really relevant since every interpersonal problem can be explained in terms of ASD --- lol! My concerns were just dismissed. It's hard to get anyone to believe me who doesn't know me. But those close to me, including two of my exes and, this morning, my mother, all agree with me. I just don't fit the "type" that professionals are looking for, partly due to conscious masking and partly due to unconscious masking due to NLD.

I have decided that I may not even have a co-morbid but that Asperger's itself may well be an incorrect diagnosis. I have NLD, sure; that could explain some outward behaviors like prosody issues, etc. However, one of the reasons I've been obsessed with Asperger's and this site is because of pervasive doubting my autism diagnosis.

Why does it matter? I can't get the help I need with an AS diagnosis. I've tried, which leads me to be told that, if I have it at all, it's very mild. None of the so-called "social skills training" addresses my specific issues. But I definitely have something that isn't mild. Since many of you would probably love to be rid of me, the fake aspie who keys cars and gives bad advice in the Love & Dating section, what should I do to get re-diagnosed, so I can actually address my real issues and quit wasting so much time on this website? Laughing
_________________
Diagnosed with PDD-NOS on page 8 of diagnostic report. Diagnosed with Asperger's on page 3 of diagnostic report. Diagnosed with NLD on page 2.

Last edited by Tyri0n on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:57 am; edited 1 time in total"

Okay, sorry, I didn't read his original message through completely. I also haven't read through a lot of this thread so I didn't see the explanation for the keying. I just saw him talking about NVLD which I also have so I jumped in to talk about that.



er, I think the above quote has an implied meaning but I can't figure out what it is.
Posting on WP is usually not something that I take very seriously. I just share my own experiences and try to relate to others. I find it interesting to compare my experiences and symptoms to others who have been diagnosed with the same disorder as me. Also, I like to express my opinions about theories and ideas that are being debated.When the OP of a thread is very upset or describing suffering though I dotry to take that seriously and give good advice. I'm sure my advice isn't always that good but I try. I have also suffered and do not want others to suffer.

Good. That should be out in about a month. I think the changes they're going to make to the PDD now ASD category are for the best.

@goldfish:

The internal thought processes are significantly more removed from Asperger's than the outward behaviors.

For example, I do create personas; however, it is not to fit in, or to cope. Creating personas is typically reactionary rather than calculated, and my personas are often completely random and self-defeating; I also have limited control over them, or which one I pick at a given time; different personas flow from different energy within that exists at different times. For example, I'll be an arrogant and narcissistic jerk because of poor self-esteem, or I'll adopt the oppositional, antisocial persona of some (typically black) men I know as a reaction to perceived slights. Occasionally, I'll become a hardcore liberal or conservative or adopt some other quality to fit in, but just as often, I'll become the opposite of those around me out of anger. Around a woman who smiles at me and acts nice, I can morph (temporarily) into a touchy-feely empathetic person. The longer I am around someone, however, the less likely I am to demonstrate empathy, or even sympathy for that matter.

Since my personas are random and typically serve no purpose, I would say that, maybe superficially, this is similar to the "female version" of Asperger's, but it is actually quite different and is, perhaps, more the "male version" of borderline or Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

When I supposedly miss social cues, or fail to demonstrate either cognitive or affective empathy, in many cases, this is actually the result of not caring or acting in deliberate defiance rather than actually missing them. Then again, on another day, in another mood, I catch the same social cues and demonstrate NT-levels of cognitive and affective empathy.

The sensory perceptual things do have some similarities with descriptions of Asperger's, unlike the motivations behind behaviors. But there are also some differences, especially as these, like the other things, vary significantly based on mood (love loud music and have no trouble with loud noises one day, and then can't even stand the sound of someone walking another day)

@littlebee

1. This searching for diagnoses has taken place over a period of a few months. If it was two years instead of two months, you might be right. I never looked into any of these things--or considered that I had any kind of problem-- till I was basically forced to do so last October.

2. Due to my rigid thinking (asperger's?), I cannot address problems without a label/framework in which to put them. For example, once I found out I had Asperger's/NLD, I actually started to do things to address those weaknesses, like speech coaching, acting classes, and exercises/supplements to improve NLD. However, if I don't have a framework in which to put something, it's very hard for me to identify what the problem is, and my natural reaction is to get resentful when others point problems out.

For example, NT's sometimes said I "lacked confidence" based on certain outward behaviors, which made me very angry and even blind to seeing these things, because I instinctively knew it was a mischaracterization of me that portrayed as a conscious choice what was actually neurologically based in NLD. Once I found out I had NLD, everything made sense, and I took steps to address these outward behaviors. It will be the same with my PD.

I am currently looking at both Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. Ideally, I'd find an expert in both, assuming there is one in my insurance network. Otherwise, I'll have to be pretty sure myself, so I can choose a physician based on their expertise.

Do you have the aspie gait to your step when you walk? I can't recall if this has been asked or stated yet.

Might help to describe the aspie gait.

I've seen it referenced many times, but I don't know what it is.